[wanabidii] Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto

KM,
I am also happy that i seem to detect some sense of genuine
realism coming from the West on this ICC quagmire! The ICC is a
calamity waiting to happen and, i believe, it is in everyone's
interest that it is handled soberly!

I will never tire up stating that the ICC lost the plot when they
openly declared that there was nothing to stop Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta
and William Samoei Ruto from running for office! Now they must live
with the reality that they have a novel situation where they are not
only trying a "sitting President" but, equally, a "Commander-in-Chief"
in actual command of "armed forces"! I don't know why this simple, yet
pregnant, fact cannot sink in with some people!!! Even the GREAT
America CANNOT do anything about that without getting hurt and, if we
keep encouraging the West in that direction, WE SHALL get hurt, too,
as a people!!! Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta may very well genuinely want to
go to The Hague, but i believe Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta will only go to
The Hague when/after/if "The Commander-in-Chief of The Kenya Defence
Forces" says that Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta may go to The Hague!!! If you
doubt me, check with The Kenya Defence Forces; what it means to them,
having their "Commander-in-Chief" physically present before The ICC!!!
Ambassador Amina Mohammed should,also, be cautioned
that her daily pronouncements of her perceived "success" on these ICC
issues are NOT good negotiating skills, in any forum, but especially
in a forum of sovereign States! Equally dangerous, is the demand for a
special session specifically to amend The Rome Statute and making that
public before the fact! That puts States in a "pressure-cooker" mode,
and is usually a recipe for rejection, simply out of pride! I'd have
sued for quiet diplomacy until i was "cock-sure" of the numbers!!!
Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.

On 11/30/13, Nyamodi Ochieng Nyamogo <okil@nyamogoadvocates.com> wrote:
> Pastor Birai,
> I detect, and detest, dishonesty in what you are
> saying! You are taking this stance simply because certain things are
> NOT going PREDICTABLY the way you'd have wished! Debate on current
> affairs is no "prediction"! If it chances that, later, results fall in
> place, then that's life!!!
> Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.
>
> On 11/29/13, Geoffrey Omollo <kidikibudi@outlook.com> wrote:
>> Wacha za ovyo askofu. Sasa hiyo ya kila mtu najua matako yako imetoka
>> wapi?
>>
>> Mimi najua tu ile ya Kariuki Chotara: Hayati Mtukufu Rais Moi, hii watu
>> yote
>> iko nyuma ya matako yako na matashika matako yako kwa nguvu yote hadi
>> mwisho. Usiogope maadui ya serikali yako hayati mtukufu, mimi matafanya
>> watu
>> hii yote mashike matako yako yote bila kuachiria ndiyo uenderee kutawara
>> mirere.
>>
>> Waigwa?
>>
>> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the Year' in
>> 2006...As indicated on my Resume.
>>
>> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:25:54 -0500
>> Subject: RE: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting Uhuru
>> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> From: kjmwangi@gmail.com
>> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Hii Kiswahili ya wapi kijana Omollo? Pastor Birai is Swahilically
>> challenged
>> and could quote you on mtu kumi. Do you need some classes from me on
>> Swahili? Even kaliech of rais moi kila mtu anajua matako yako kabisa
>> could
>> not make such a mistake.
>>
>> Bei ya kufunzwa kiswahili na Mwalimu Kuria ni nafuu.
>> On Nov 29, 2013 12:56 PM, "Geoffrey Omollo" <kidikibudi@outlook.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pastor,
>>
>> Umesema kama mtu kumi.
>>
>> Pewa gorogoro moja ya chai ya soya hapo kwa bill yangu.
>>
>> Barikiwa!
>>
>>
>>
>> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the Year' in
>> 2006
>> ...As indicated on my Resume.
>>
>> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:51:57 -0600
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting Uhuru
>> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> From: prbirai@gmail.com
>> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>> Geoffrey
>> What is amazing is how precise these guys think they are. They speak with
>> authority and don't like when others differ with them. This is where egos
>> crash and crash hard.What we forget is that way before Uhuru and Ruto
>> came
>> into power, there was Kenyatta, Moi and Kibaki. They all had both good
>> and
>> bad leadership. They are gone never to come back to power. Regardless of
>> how
>> long the 2 will rule, their time of exit will also come and someone else
>> will come on.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Geoffrey Omollo
>> <kidikibudi@outlook.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pastor,
>>
>> Tell them to be like me. Ugali yangu ya sufuria bado ni lile lile. The
>> day
>> that changes, I will be screaming ICC to hell and back.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the Year' in
>> 2006
>>
>> ...As indicated on my Resume.
>>
>> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:41:30 -0600
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting Uhuru
>> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> From: prbirai@gmail.com
>> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Every single day, we have this or that opinion on the ICC. Each
>> commentator
>> feels like they know what exactly is going to happen. Why don't we all
>> lie
>> low and wait for the final verdict. Either way, Kenya will have to move
>> forward
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:33 AM, David ochwangi <dochwangi@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Rev KM,
>>
>> This. Is the clearest admission that these cases are falling apart faster
>> than a castle on quick sand. We have always maintained that these were a
>> political witch~hunt and everyone can now see that they wouldn't succeed,
>> they may wanna milk it just for effects but from a practical standpoint,
>> this is over! CORD and the so called civil society need to find something
>> else to peg their hopes on or to keep them busy, the ICC is not it
>> anymore.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:
>>
>> Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com>;
>>
>>
>>
>> To:
>>
>> progressive-kenyans
>> <progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cc:
>>
>> uchunguzi online
>> <uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com>; Africa-Oped
>> <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; VVM Vuguvugu Mashinani
>> <VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com>; WanaKenya
>> <Wanakenya@googlegroups.com>;
>> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject:
>>
>> UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto
>>
>>
>> Sent:
>>
>> Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:24:37 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Okil, Jexx and others:
>> I think the devil you two mentioned is already out. Those Judges could
>> article the article below to demand presence of the accused in court.
>> Githu
>> and others should have demanded for the articles to be amended so your
>> worries cannot be dismissed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The good thing is that those who calls the tune and feed those Judges and
>> other ICC mouths seem genuine in preferring that the cases go on in Hague
>> without the presence of the accused. I strongly think those changes would
>> not have happened if Rao won! I mean if the two gnus didnt win so their
>> position and the diplomacy within AU has paid dividends to some extent.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What I am almost certain and wish it does not go through is the nonsense
>> of
>> immunity for heads of states. This will be headed nowhere especially
>> after
>> the new amendments unless they think one can run away from justice by
>> holding on to a presidency. They need to think of dictators who can use
>> such
>> avenues as they also think of the monkey on their necks if the cases were
>> not solved.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All in all, I dont see the judges applying the rules below and demanding
>> that the two be present in Hague. If the two fellows refuses to honor the
>> summons, they will have the support from outside Africa and such moves
>> will
>> be opposed by many from Whitehall to White House. I think the spirit of
>> the
>> ASP was for striking a balance between victims and the need to run the
>> country.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> As Okil said earlier, the ICC knuckleheads shoot themselves in eye balls
>> the
>> moment they said there is nothing wrong with the suspects running for
>> office. The two took it literary and really ran.
>>
>> Kuria
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/United-Kingdom-Uhuru-Kenyatta-William-Ruto-ICC/-/1064/2093088/-/138jf3d/-/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still, these rules would not apply if judges choose to go with
>> Article 63 of the Rome Statute. The relationship between the Rules of
>> Procedure for Evidence and that of the Statute is similar to that of the
>> Constitution and an Act of Parliament; the Constitution remains
>> supreme.
>> Article 63 reads: "(I) The accused shall be
>> present during the trial. (II) If the accused, being present before the
>> Court, continues to disrupt the trial, the Trial Chamber may remove the
>> accused and shall make provision for him or her to observe the trial and
>> instruct counsel from outside the courtroom, through the use of
>> communications technology, if required. Such measures shall be taken
>> only in exceptional circumstances after other reasonable alternatives
>> have proved inadequate, and only for such duration as is strictly
>> required."
>> This article together with Article 27 of the
>> Statute which says that the accused are taken in regardless of their
>> standing in the society were not amended during the recent State
>> Parties' conference. However, the Kenyan delegation led by Foreign
>> Affairs Cabinet Secretary Amina Mohamed has indicated that they had
>> issued a notice for special meeting in February next year to discuss
>> amendments to these articles.
>>
>> --
>> \
>> Veritas liberabit vosThe truth Shall set you free
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.kuria-mwangi.blogspot.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/kjmwangi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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