Victor na "Roho Mtakatifu" ni dhana ya nani?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Victor Mwita <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:
Dhambi ya asili ni dhana ya Kikatoliki na haitajwi popote kwenye Biblia. Most likely ilizuliwa kama tulivyoletewa Krismas na Easther ambazo kimsingi ni siku kuu za kipagani zilizobatizwa na kufanywa za Kikristo.
Hakuna Roho wa Agano la Kale wala wa Jipya. Roho iliyotulia juu ya maji wakati wa uumbaji ndiye aliyesema na Nuhu, Ibrahim, Isaya, Yeremia na Amosi na manabii wengine wa enzi za Israel na wakati wa Mitume na hata sasa.Sent from My Ipad
On 18 Dec 2014 22:04, "akihaule@gmail.com" <akihaule@gmail.com> wrote:--Kwa hiyo unatueleza kuwa ,Roho Mtakatifu wa agano jipya si yule wa agano la kale. Kwa kuwa huyo wa nyakati za agano la kale alipatikana kupitia madhehebu ya kimwili kwa mteule kupakwa mafuta. Kwa maneno mengine Roho huyo bila uwapo wa mafuta asingalipatikana.
Tuelezee hapo kiimani yamaanisha kitu gani?
Ni kweli roho huyo umzungumziaye ni yule yule aliyevuviwa Bikira Maria , akazaliwa Yesu, na baada ya Yesu Kupaa kama alivyoahidi ndipo sasa wanadamu waamini wakaanza kumpokea?
Au waleta aya zenye kufanana fanana na utakalo kulitetea?
Jitahidi kunifunza tena.
On Dec 18, 2014 7:30 PM, "frank patrick materu" <materufrank@yahoo.com> wrote:--Arbo, Katika Agano la Kale, Viongozi wa aina tatu walipakwa mafuta na kupokea Roho Mtakatifu:1. Makuhani [Kutoka 28:41]2. Wafalme [1Samweli 10:1]3. Manabii [1 Wafalme 19:16]Watu wengine Mungu aliweza kuwapaka mafuta na kupokea Roho Mtakatifu kwa kazi maalumu [1Samweli 16:13, Isaya 61:1]a) Yusufu Mwanzo[ 41:38-40]b) Bezaleel Kutoka [31:2-5]Katika Agano Jipya Matendo ya Mitume 2, Mungu alimwaga Roho wake Mtakatifu kwa WATU WOTE waliomwamini Yesu [Linganisha na Yoeli 2:28-32]c) (1) Apostles (Luke 24:49; Acts 2:4-13).d) (2) Disciples (Acts 4:31).e) (3) Deacons (Acts 6:1-5).f) (4) Peter (Mark 14:71, 72; Acts 4:8-10).g) (5) Paul (Acts 9:8, 9; 9:17-22).1. Saved and filled at once:h) (1) Jews (Acts 2:37-39).i) (2) Gentiles (Acts 10:43, 44)."Maana unabii haukutolewa popote kwa mapenzi ya mwanadamu; bali wanadamu walinena yaliyotoka kwa Mungu, wakiongozwa na Roho Mtakatifu" (2 Perto 1:21). FrankTo: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Cc: materufrank@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: 'Pope' Claims Mary Was Conceived 'Without Original Sin' During Feast of Immaculate Conception
Materu ndugu yangu, Roho Mtakatifu unayemuongelea kwa Agano la Kale ndiye yupi? Maana tulimfahamu Roho Mtakatifu , pale Yesu alipomtambulisha kwa wanafunzi wake kwa kuwaeleza na kusisitiza Roho huyo ili aje ni lazima Yeye aondoke. Na wanaompata ni kupitia yeye , sasa hao wa Agano la Kale walimpataje huyu Roho Mtakatifu tunayemuongelea , ambaye alimjia Bikira Maria na akapata Ujauzito......Fafanua hapo. bado nipo gizani.!
On Thursday, 18 December 2014 08:14:32 UTC+1, Frank Materu wrote:...Dhambi ya asili ni ile dhambi Adam na Hawa/Eva waliyotenda pale katika bustani ya Eden, katika kitabu cha Mwanzo Sura ya 3, kwa kutokutii amri ya Mungu ya kuwakataza wasile matunda ya mti ulio katikati ya bustani ya Mungu na kutii amri ya shetani/nyoka. Adam, Hawa/Eva, Nyoka wote wakalaaniwa pamoja na ardhi/dunia na uzao wake wote. Katika Biblia, kwenye Agano la Kale na hata Agano Jipya, walikuwepo wacha-Mungu wengi, wakiwemo manabii na makuhani. Nao walijazwa Roho Mtakatifu. Bikira Maria alizaliwa kama mwanadamu yeyote na alijitunza kama wanawake wengine waliojitunza, na kumpenda Mungu. Kwa sababu alizaliwa kwa mimba iliyotungwa na baba na mama ambao ni wanadamu/ Wana wa adamu, alirithi dhabi ile ya asili na alihitaji mwokozi. Ndiyo maana Mariamu mwenyewe katika kitabu cha Luka 1:46-47 inasema "Mariamu akasema, Moyo wangu wamwadhimisha Bwana, Na roho yangu imefurahia Mungu, Mwokozi wangu;Vifungu vikubwa zaidi katika Biblia vinavyohusu kupotea ni; Rumi 3:9-20; Efeso 2, na Yohana 3. Tukianza na vifungu hivi na tukiorodhesha vipengele tofautitofauti tunapata kwa uchache nia mia moja ambazo Agano Jipya linaelezea hali ya mwanadamu ya kupotea.Rumi 3:9-20 inazungumzia juu ya watu wote, Wayahudi na Wayunani;1. Wote wako chini ya dhambi (mst. 9)2. Hakuna mwenye haki, hayupo hata mmoja, (mst.10)3. Hakuna afahamuye (mst.11)4. Hakuna amtafutaye Mungu (mst.11)5. Wote wamepotoka (mst.12)6. Wameoza wote pia (mst 12)7. Hakuna mtenda mema la, hata mmoja (mst 12)8. Koo lao ni kaburi wazi, kwa ndimi zao wametumia hila, sumu ya fira i chini ya midomo yao (mst 13)9. Vinywa vyao vimejaa laana na uchungu (mst 14)10.Miguu yao ina mbio kumwaga damu (mst 15)11. Uharibifu na mashaka yamo njiani mwao (mst 16)12.Wala njia ya amani hawakuijua (mst 17)13. Kumcha Mungu hakupo machoni pao. (mst 18)14.Kila kinywa kifumbwe, na ulimwengu wote uwe chini ya hukumu ya Mungu (mst 19)15. Kwa maana hakuna mwenye mwili atakayehesabiwa haki mbele zake kwa matendo ya sheria (mst 20)KILA SHARTI NA DHAMBI ZILIZOTAJWA HAPA NI HALISI KWA KILA MTU. Kwa sababu wote wamefanya dhambi, na kupungukiwa na utukufu wa Mungu; [Warumi 3:230]Dhambi nyingine zote ni nizile mtu anazozitenda mwenyewe kulingana na 1 Yohana 3:4-10 kwa sababu ya kutomwamini Yesu Kristo. Kila akaaye ndani yake hatendi dhambi 1 Yohana 3:6 Frank
From: Telesphor Magobe <tma...@gmail.com>
To: "wana...@googlegroups.com" <wana...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: 'Pope' Claims Mary Was Conceived 'Without Original Sin' During Feast of Immaculate Conception
By the way Frank, ukijibu jaribu pia kutwambia tofauti kati ya original sin na actual sin. Tunataka tujue kama kweli unatuletea mambo unayoyajua kweli au babaisha toto tu ili na wewe uonekane wamo.On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:4. What we want to see in you or in your arguments is intelligent thinking/reasoning and not just copying and pasting (dry intellectualism).3. If you want to know and understand Catholic teaching/theology/philosophy go in class and study it. Just copying and pasting unrelated facts and putting them together and then bringing them here shows only how ignorant you are.1. Frank, what do you mean when you say: "The ignorance of the RC clergy of the Bible is only equaled by their hostility to it"?2. As far as I know the RC clergy are not ignorant of the bible - they know it well in and out. You may be ignorant of it yourself, but not they. You just read it and tell what you think it says, but they have gone two or more steps further. They have read it, studied it and done exegesis of verse by verse, chapter by chapter and book by book. Those people are very knowledgeable. They just try to lower themselves to your level because if they argue to you the way they are taught you can't understand because you are not of their level. If they do, you will only confuse. Exegesis is a particular study of biblical narratives in which the person studying those narratives must have at the least the knowledge of some original languages - Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek (+ Latin). So, if you are asking me between you and the clergy, who is ignorant of the bible, I would straight away say it's you because what you are telling us just comes from what you are copying and pasting about the Bible or the Catholic Church, while the RC clergy have studied it well and so they can't be ignorant of it. How would you prove that the RC clergy are ignorant of the bible?On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Arbo <akihaule@gmail.com> wrote:Advice taken Ludo
On Wednesday, 17 December 2014 22:25:58 UTC+1, Joseph Ludovick wrote:Arbo
Cant you spare your energy for some other things?On Dec 18, 2014 12:21 AM, "Arbo" <akih...@gmail.com> wrote:Frank ,have you ever attended a Roman Catholic Mass? Ever read a book about how a Roman Catholic Mass is celebrated? If yes , please present evidence from any such a book that the RC church contravenes or is opposed to the Holy Bible......
On Wednesday, 17 December 2014 14:50:33 UTC+1, Frank Materu wrote:Answer: The attitude and action of the RC from the 5th Century to the 21st Century in regard to the Bible may be termed, determined deadly opposition. The opposition is against the Bible, pure and simple. Why Catholic priests so hostile to the Bible? Why do they not want their people to read it?
From: Telesphor Magobe <tma...@gmail.com>
To: "wana...@googlegroups.com" <wana...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: 'Pope' Claims Mary Was Conceived 'Without Original Sin' During Feast of Immaculate Conception
I'm asking you: What are you making out of 'the original sin or Immaculate conception'?On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 3:27 PM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:In 1854 Pope Pius IX established the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception in the bull Ineffabilis Deus: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Assumption of Mary, and so on and so forth. These are mandatory teachings. There are said to be of divine law. The Catholic people may not reject those teachings. If they do, there is what they call an anathema. There's a curse for any Roman Catholic who would reject an official dogma regarding Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. Catholic priests will be honest in telling us that indeed this teaching had no foundation in Scripture. Frank
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: 'Pope' Claims Mary Was Conceived 'Without Original Sin' During Feast of Immaculate Conception
After all hujui 'kukingiwa dhambi ya asili au kutozaliwa na dhambi' maana yake ni nini. Umeokotaokota tu vimaandiko huko na kuvileta hapa wakati hata hujui maana yake. Shame upon you!On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:Na wewe wapi imeandikwa kwenye biblia kwamba Mariamu alimzaa kwa vile alikuwa na dhambi?On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 11:55 AM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:Jibu hoja! Ni wapi kwenye Biblia panaposema Bikira Mariamu hakufanya dhambi? Nimethibitisha katika Biblia kuwa "Wote wamefanya dhambi na kupungukiwa na utukufu wa Mungu" (Warumi 3:23). Hayo mmeyatoa wapi?. Wewe mwenye kitu hebu tueleze, ni wapi kwenye Biblia Bikira Mariamu alikingiwa dhambi ya asili, au hakufanya dhambi.
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: 'Pope' Claims Mary Was Conceived 'Without Original Sin' During Feast of Immaculate Conception
Jovias, ogopa mtu ambaye hana kitu isipokuwa anaokotezaokoteza maoni ya watu wengine na kuyatumia kukosoa Kanisa Katoliki. Heri angejenga hoja yeye mwenyewe hapo ningeona amesema kitu. Lakini kurudiarudia tu maoni ya wengine binafsi naona anapoteza muda tu maana hakuna kipya anachosema! Yaani ni kama msemo usemao: "Ganda la muwa la jana chungu kaona kivuno."On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 8:07 AM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:Wisdom and knowledge does not mean the same thing. Knowledge is when you become learned and wisdom is when you make good use of the knowledge like sharing it, doing good deeds according to it and so on.
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