Sunday 29 September 2013

[wanabidii] Fw: What is Atheism in Luhya? HARRY Mumia please respond


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Paul Liyai <pauliyai@yahoo.com>
To: The Atheist <hmumia@gmail.com>; "hmumia@gmail.com" <hmumia@gmail.com>; "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>; "wanakenya@googlegroups.com" <wanakenya@googlegroups.com>; "vuguvugumashinani@yahoogroups.com" <vuguvugumashinani@yahoogroups.com>; "antombeks@gmail.com" <antombeks@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: What is Atheism in Luhya? HARRY Mumia please respond

Dear Mumia,
I am so happy that you are talking and responding to what I said albeit shallowly. My intention of responding to you and asking you to explain Atheism in your own language was to expose your underbelly. Mumia I can give you a tutorial on atheism because for your information this is all in the area of Philosophy which is actually subordinate to the Queen of sciences-Theology.

1 when I asked you to write a paragraph in your language about what you understand Atheism to be as you would tell your old grandmother to follow you in your thought. Why did I say that? Is it because I do not understand English? No infact Harry I would say that I may have taught you English in class because to me you seem to be an 8-4-4.

I asked you write in Luhya because language determines thought; this is a basic tenor of relativism you purport to believe in, languages impose on their speakers a picture of reality that is totally different from ours, so their speakers would simply not be able to understand some of our most basic concepts, like the flow of time or the distinction between (Sapir, 1921)

I state here that Harry Mumia is not an atheist because there is nothing like atheism. Aliens from other planets may exist but the so called atheists have never existed. Can you show proof that they do? What authoritative source do you have that shows they exist? Have you carried out an experiment in the science laboratory to distinguish these people? So far there are no record to show that this species exist. Christianity exist because there are records that show that there lived a man about 2000 years ago who was called the Christ and He had followers made from common fishermen and tax collectors who were later nicknamed Christians. This guy never wrote a book but many books have been written and are still being written about Him.

This guy Mumia is used to make a difference in History. His come cuts human history into two- BC and A.D. Without cutting and pasting, can you tell us where these people are? The disgruntled busybodies who gather with you in the so called Kenya free thinkers are not atheists, they are just confused bitter people who want to indulge in orgies, gluttony, lust.

You say you believe in Ethics. Do you know what the words Ethics and morality mean? Let me educate you; ethics is a Greek word meaning "character" used for the study of morals,it is a branch of philosophy and philosophy is under theology. 
Please know to even define the word Atheism you must look at the root of the word- theos which means God. So even non-existant  atheism is derived from God. You must start with theos to say something about atheism.

You said you wanted to define sin, but you did not. Read what you wrote here and show me where you defined sin. Mumia you pretend to be a scholar or a philosopher but when you are put to account for your pose, you falter and fall headlong. So please you cannot teach me about what is non-existent. ATHEISM is non-existent as long as you cannot say it in your own language.

Response: C.S Lewis talks about sin. Again we cannot do justice to the point without defining sin, otherwise we shall fall into the trap of making assumptions. For me, there is nothing called SIN in the world. My ethical worldview is based on a humanistic approach. In summary, humanist like me  believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.


From: The Atheist <hmumia@gmail.com>
To: Paul Liyai <pauliyai@yahoo.com>
Cc: "progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com" <progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>; "uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com" <uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com>; "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>; "wanakenya@googlegroups.com" <wanakenya@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: What is Atheism in Luhya? HARRY Mumia please respond

Paul,
Sooner than later, you will realize that i am not one of your regular below average populist Atheists. Despite the fact that you have the internet, you seem not to be interested in using it to address some obvious definitions, instead you take time to type a phrase like "atheists are non-existent". So i will do you some favor, and explain what Atheism is:

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists. 
So for me, Harry, i am an Atheist. I am not a believer in deities. Deities include the biblical god, the hindu gods, the musim god, or any other gods. But that is not all. I am also a free thinker, meaning i am pro science and secular humanism. As a free thinkers i have my opinon of morality, religion, purpose of life etc.

Paul, you go ahead and give me some cheap, lousy challenge. You want me to describe  state, explain Atheism in luhya or swahili. Let us first ask, how useful is this challenge in your discourse? What are you trying to achieve, other that showing how shallow your view of things really is? If there is no word in luhya that describes Atheism, so what? We are in a knowledge society. Ok? You must not even know luhya to be an Atheist. There are many things i do today that are not part of the luhya culture or subculture, because of education, change of culture etc. So i do not think it is important to find a word in luhya that explains Atheism. All i am saying is that i find this particular questions stupid.

Finally, the westgate terror. That was a bad thing. Why was it bad? People died; innocent people died. It was not bad because the bible says so, it was bad because it led to unnecessary loss of life. But remember, if it was war, if we went to war and our soldiers died, i would say they died in the course of duty. As a soldier, you expect to be shot if you go to war. Right? And that is why i talked of the ethical value of utilitarianism. 

As for Lewis, it matters less who he is. I will respond to his views using logic, reason, philosophy and rational. I will not just imagine, like most Christians, that he is some sort of super-human.


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Paul Liyai <pauliyai@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Harry,
It was good to see for the first time you have responded but Please do not expose your intellectual impoverishment here. What CS Lewis wrote is indisputable. Analogies in philosophical discussion are countered with other analogies. You have posited none. Right now you are in a sleeping state fooling yourself that you are intelligent. When you will wake up from that sleep is when you will recognize your folly. One thing that you should know as a fact is, the so called Atheists are actually non-existent. We have no creatures on this earth called atheists because this is the making of bitter people who are bitter against God who created them.

I asked you to tell me what Atheism is in Luhya or Kiswahili but you never even attempted to. Waht will you tell your grandmother in your language if they were to ask you what you are talking about?
I demand that you write a paragraph of Atheism is in Luhya and Kiswahili if you want people to believe you are indeed a man of your own intelligence as you purport to be.

Lastly you do not seem to understand things, what would you call what the terrorist did in Westgate? Killing unarmed women and children? is that humanity? Evil, or bad? You also show your village mentality by comparing CS Lewis with Bonke, Bishop Kariuki and Muiru, what is wrong with you?
I never want to respond to your postings because you never respond but when I saw you had responded to this, I was encouraged to respond too.
Keep it up.
From: The Atheist <hmumia@gmail.com>
To: progressive-kenyans <progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [PK] For the Harry Mumia and group

Hey guyz, you spoilt my weekend! Nkt!
Was having a nice weekend only to open my emails and find you spreading religious dogma without any shame! You are relentlessly trying to convince yourself that god exists. He does NOT!

I will start here: I do not know who CS. Lewis is, but i would assume he is intelligent and a good writer, and maybe a superb speaker. Most famous pastors are anyway. Look at T.D Jakes, Reinhadt Bonke, even here in Kenya, look at former Pius Muiru, Mark Kariuki. I am therefore not mesmerized by his quotes.

Let me tackle them one by one:

1. C.S. Lewis on knowing our own sin
"When a man is getting better he understands more and more clearly the evil that is still left in him. When a man is getting worse he understands his own badness less and less. A moderately bad man knows he is not very good: a thoroughly bad man thinks he is all right. This is common sense, really. You understand sleep when you are awake, not while you are sleeping. You can see mistakes in arithmetic when your mind is working properly: while you are making them you cannot see them. You can understand the nature of drunkenness when you are sober, not when you are drunk. Good people know about both good and evil: bad people do not know about either."

Response: The issue for me as an Atheist and a Free Thinker is what we define as good and bad. C.S. Lewis talks about evil and good. What is good, what is bad? What is evil? Who decides what is good and bad? If the bible is what defines good and bad, then i am a secularist. I look at goodness and badness from a relativist perspective. I also subscribe to the ethical principle of utilitarianism, where the greatest good for the greatest number of people becomes the basis for which i base the goodness or badness of an action. CS Lewis makes a mistake when he compares goodness and badness to sleep and waking up. This is what we call incomplete comparison. 

 2. C.S. Lewis on the sins of our youth
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. I have heard others, and I have heard myself, recounting cruelties and falsehoods committed in boyhood as if they were no concern of the present speaker's, and even with laughter. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin. The guilt is washed out not by time but by repentance and the blood of Christ: if we have repented these early sins we should remember the price of our forgiveness and be humble."

Response: C.S Lewis talks about sin. Again we cannot do justice to the point without defining sin, otherwise we shall fall into the trap of making assumptions. For me, there is nothing called SIN in the world. My ethical worldview is based on a humanistic approach. In summary, humanist like me  believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.

3. C.S. Lewis on sexual temptation
"We must learn by experience to avoid either trains of thought or social situations which for us (not necessarily for everyone) lead to temptations. Like motoring—don't wait till the last moment before you put on the brakes but put them on, gently and quietly, while the danger is still a good way off."

Response: Sex is performed by two people, a male and female. If to consenting adults decided to have sex, that is their business. Lewis totally lost it here!
4. C.S. Lewis on happiness
"What Satan put into the heads of our remote ancestors was the idea that they could 'be like gods'—could set up on their own as if they had created themselves—be their own masters—invent some sort of happiness for themselves outside God, apart from God. And out of that hopeless attempt has come nearly all that we call human history—money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery—the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy.
God cannot give us a happiness and peace apart from Himself, because it is not there. There is no such thing."

Response: I think you folks do not get it. i am an Atheist. ATHESIT!!! I do not believe in any god. Litsen,we, free thinkers, deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation. So this is gibberish stuff. We must ask whether there is evidence that god exists.

5. C.S. Lewis on knowing God


"When you come to knowing God, the initiative lies on His side. If He does not show Himself, nothing you can do will enable you to find Him. And, in fact, He shows much more of Himself to some people than to others—not because He has favourites, but because it is impossible for Him to show Himself to a man whose whole mind and character are in the wrong condition. Just as sunlight, though it has no favourites, cannot be reflected in a dusty mirror as clearly as in a clean one." 

Response: Refer response for 4.

 6. (Secret bonus quote!) C.S. Lewis on the present moment
"Never, in peace or war, commit your virtue or your happiness to the future. Happy work is best done by the man who takes his long-term plans somewhat lightly and works from moment to moment 'as to the Lord.' It is only our daily bread that we are encouraged to ask for. The present is the only time in which any duty can be done or any grace received."

Response: Suprise suprise! I agree with C.S Lewis. If only he could have left the words Lord out, and that daily bread business, and grace, i concur with him.




On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Geoffrey Omollo <kidikibudi@outlook.com> wrote:
Mr. Liyai,

Awesome, C. S. Lewis is one of my favourite christian writers along side Albert Mohler, Spurgeon, G. K Chesterson ( a great catholic as probably we'll never have again in our times) and his contemporary Tolkien.

I have in my collection most of (if not all) of C.S Lewis works and distilling his timeless vignettes as you have done is certainly a most salutary undertaking that might help those who are not acquainted with the works of this great man who despite the fact that he never trained as a theologian inhabits a most visible seat in the pantheon of Christian Apologists.

Let us hope that folks like Harry Mumia do get to learn a few things about humility that the Christian Walk of Life demands of us if we are to really begin an attempt at understanding the mind of God which even though He states is unsearchable is revealed only to those with childlike faith and and possessed of a kind of inquisitiveness that can only be appreciated for its genuine ardour in seeking God and a teach-ability of the seeker's heart.

Baraka.


"Never be guilty of sacrificing any portion of TRUTH on the altar of PEACE."J. C. Ryle.


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:03:20 -0700
From: pauliyai@yahoo.com
Subject: [PK] For the Harry Mumia and group
To: uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com; hmumia@gmail.com; vuguvugumashinani@yahoogroups.com; progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com; youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com; wanabidii@googlegroups.com; wanakenya@googlegroups.com


Dear Friends please read this and reflect. Mumia you have not responded to the two videos I send to you.

Five Timeless Quotes by C.S. Lewis

I'm on record as asserting that C.S. Lewis is the most quotable Christian writer in the history of the modern church (although I will allow that Charles Spurgeon is also a good contender for this title). Earlier this year I shared five of my favorite Charles Spurgeon quotes, and now that our C.S. Lewis Daily devotional has been up and running for a while, it's time to do the same with the eminently quotable Mr. Lewis.
Here, then, are five great quotes from C.S. Lewis. All of these are drawn from the C.S. Lewis Daily devotional here at Bible Gateway.
1. C.S. Lewis on knowing our own sin
"When a man is getting better he understands more and more clearly the evil that is still left in him. When a man is getting worse he understands his own badness less and less. A moderately bad man knows he is not very good: a thoroughly bad man thinks he is all right. This is common sense, really. You understand sleep when you are awake, not while you are sleeping. You can see mistakes in arithmetic when your mind is working properly: while you are making them you cannot see them. You can understand the nature of drunkenness when you are sober, not when you are drunk. Good people know about both good and evil: bad people do not know about either." — from Mere Christainity
2. C.S. Lewis on the sins of our youth
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. I have heard others, and I have heard myself, recounting cruelties and falsehoods committed in boyhood as if they were no concern of the present speaker's, and even with laughter. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin. The guilt is washed out not by time but by repentance and the blood of Christ: if we have repented these early sins we should remember the price of our forgiveness and be humble." — from The Problem of Pain
3. C.S. Lewis on sexual temptation
"We must learn by experience to avoid either trains of thought or social situations which for us (not necessarily for everyone) lead to temptations. Like motoring—don't wait till the last moment before you put on the brakes but put them on, gently and quietly, while the danger is still a good way off." —from a personal letter to a friend
4. C.S. Lewis on happiness
"What Satan put into the heads of our remote ancestors was the idea that they could 'be like gods'—could set up on their own as if they had created themselves—be their own masters—invent some sort of happiness for themselves outside God, apart from God. And out of that hopeless attempt has come nearly all that we call human history—money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery—the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy.
God cannot give us a happiness and peace apart from Himself, because it is not there. There is no such thing." —from Mere Christianity
5. C.S. Lewis on knowing God
"When you come to knowing God, the initiative lies on His side. If He does not show Himself, nothing you can do will enable you to find Him. And, in fact, He shows much more of Himself to some people than to others—not because He has favourites, but because it is impossible for Him to show Himself to a man whose whole mind and character are in the wrong condition. Just as sunlight, though it has no favourites, cannot be reflected in a dusty mirror as clearly as in a clean one." —from Mere Christianity
6. (Secret bonus quote!) C.S. Lewis on the present moment
"Never, in peace or war, commit your virtue or your happiness to the future. Happy work is best done by the man who takes his long-term plans somewhat lightly and works from moment to moment 'as to the Lord.' It is only our daily bread that we are encouraged to ask for. The present is the only time in which any duty can be done or any grace received." —from The Weight of Glory

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