Re: [wanabidii] Re: Why Rwanda all the time?

My brother Orton,

What puzzles me is that we are being so hostile against Rwanda as we are a nation of angels, which have no serious issues affecting us that needs our debate. Today alone Hamisi Kilimba has posted three hostile postings against Rwanda, which some are archived but are re-posted here for further debate. Let us be fair and portray both sides of the story about Rwanda.

 

After all why should suddenly Tanzanians show serious concern about Rwanda? My memory are still fresh on how the media was used to spread propaganda, which finally created the human disaster in 1994. We may be dancing into the tunes of Hutus and France theory without knowing.

 

Why should we spend much time debating Rwanda, a tiny country while we have our issues to discuss? I am just wondering that we either becoming anti-Rwanda or just exercising the so called freedom of the press. Kagame is the leader of his country, and Rwandans at the end of the day have the right to judge me no matter how many times we shall attack him and his regime.

In journalism, one of the cardinals is fairness. Then I hope my Brother Hamisi Kilimba aka... will be fair so that we get both sides of the Rwandan story.

From: kiishweko orton <kiishorton2000@yahoo.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are?

Thanks for bringing us this, Mgamba.And I agree, it has so much 'acceptable' truth and 'real truth'For many, inlcluding yours truly,it is so important to sieve through so much(literature,intelligencia and on the ground experiences,-some anedoctal) to be able to make sense of such 'much highlighlited and acceptable narratives in books and media ' such that we understand complexities in this country, its people therein and those called Banyamulenge in that part of Congo.But ultimately,a war,I believe, wont solve the problem. And that is what Tanzania has suggested.Orton

From: RICHARD MGAMBA <rmgamba2000@yahoo.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are?

Elisa Muhingo and others,

I thought this debate was ended last week, but it seemed some of you are still living in the illusion of Tutsi Empire, a propaganda, which was carefully initiated soon after the collapse of the brutal Hutu's regime in Rwanda in 1994. Banyamulenge are Tutsi born in Congo with Rwandan origin, but are called so because they are perceived to be arrogant, and powerful when it comes to protecting their identity and tradition. It's the same with your region, Kagera, where you have a group of Haya, which is highly regarded as very important, arrogant, educated etc known as 'Abaziba' from a place called Kiziba.

 "The Banyamulenge is a term historically describing the ethnic Tutsi concentrated on the High Plateau of South Kivu, in the eastern region of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, close to the Burundi-Congo-Rwanda border. The ambiguous political and social position of the Banyamulenge has been a point of contention in the province, leading to the Banyamulenge playing a key role in the run-up to the First Congo War in 1996-7 and Second Congo War of 1998-2003." Wikipedia

Today, Banyamulenge are estimated to be about 70,000 populations in South Kivu Province. What puzzles me is that most of the time, we hear a lot of Banyamulenge as if within the Hutus residing in Congo, there's no that kind of a clan. There's also Banyamasisi, the mostly Hutu Banyarwanda in North Kivu, which played the host during the exodus of Hutus regime in Rwanda and has today merged with FDLR to form a government within a government inside the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The difference between Banyamulenge and Banyamasisi is that the former is very strong, and have entrepreneurial skills compared to the latter. Though in terms of numbers, the former are minority, they have managed to outsmart the latter in terms of wealth mainly cattle and land as well as war tactics.

Banyamulenge originate from the word "Mulenge" which was their clan name, while Banyamasisi take their clan name from Masisi. Both arrived in Congo in 17^th century, and therefore it is absurd to hear cheap claims from some leaders inside Congo, that these people especially Banyamulenge should be repatriated back to their country of origin.

Historically because the Mobutu regime disliked this group due to the stronger tie between the former Kinshasa government and Kigali, which was under Hutus, Banyamulenge suffered heavily forcing most of them to flee to Uganda and in Tanzania as well. During the war to topple the Hutus regime initiated by RPF in 1990, this group supported their allies from Rwanda, and when they succeeded, some were given a choice either to be Rwandans or return back to Congo where they were born.

The 1971 Citizenship Decree by President Mobutu Sese Seko granted citizenship to Banyarwanda who had arrived as refugees from 1959 to 1963. However, many saw this as an alarming sign of the growing influence of Banyarwanda in the administration, specifically Chief of Staff Barthélémy Bisengimana. In 1976, the word "Banyamulenge" first came into wide usage after Gisaro Muhazo, a South Kivu minister of parliament, began an initiative to regroup the Banyamulenge of Mwenga, Fizi and Uvira into a single administrative entity. Muhazo's attempt failed, but the term he introduced remained and, over decades, became a catchall label for Kivu Tutsis.

According to available details, in reaction to the apparently growing influence of the Banyamulenge, the majority ethnicities, particularly the Nande and Hunde of North Kivu, focused on dominating the 1977 legislative elections. Once accomplished, they passed the 1981 Citizenship Bill, stating that only people who could prove descent from someone resident in Congo in 1885 would qualify for citizenship. From the perspective of the "indigenous" ethnicities, such as the Bafuliro, the name "Banyamulenge" was thus a claim to originality in Mulenge, of which the Bafuliro themselves claimed "ownership". However, the bill proved difficult to implement by the time of the 1985 provincial assembly elections, so the "indigenous" Kivutian majority came up with an ad hoc measure: Banyarwanda were allowed vote in elections but not run for political office. This appeared to aggravate the situation as those Banyarwanda who actually qualified as citizens under the 1981 law found their political rights curtailed. The response of some Banyarwanda, particularly Tutsi, was to smash ballot boxes in protest.^[14] Others formed Umoja, an organization of all Congolese Banyarwanda. However, the increasingly tensions within the Banyarwanda led to the division of the organization into two Tutsi and Hutu groups in 1988.

Mobutu regime took the advantage of its connection with Kigali, to deal with Tutsi, a situation that forced most of them, as I said earlier, to flee the country.

 Elisa and your colleagues, you will recall that shortly after the collapse of the Hutus led regime, there was also a movement launched in Goma by Laurent Desire Kabila to topple the Kinshasa regime under Mobutu. To mobilise the resources, the Banyamulenge decided to go back to Congo to fight alongside Kabila's movement in order to topple the regime that has oppressed them for years. These included General Sultan Emanuel Makenga, the current military leader of M23, General Bosco Ntaganda and Laurent Nkunda who is under house arrest in Rwanda for some years.

After victory, Kabila betrayed this group when he ordered them to return back to their country of origin, which is Rwanda, though most of them were born and raised in Congo's South Kivu province. Now was it fair to repatriate the people whose grandparents entered Congo in the 17^th century? Was is it fair to Kabila to betray those who supported him at the time when he needed help? Just one day when you have time you can poise this question to the late Kabila where's he is.

Since this group is still suffering in Congo, it decided to fight these injustices by forming a rebel faction known as CNDP, which was last year transformed into M23. The biggest sin that we have committed in Africa is politics of exclusions, where certain tribes or clans are purposely marginalised because of the unknown fears. Julius Nyerere was against these politics, but today, some of our leaders aren't.

Elisa and your colleagues, those spreading the gospel of Tutsi Empire are the very same individuals who lost the battle in 1994, and decided that to win the sympathy in the region, they should brand Tutsi are dangerous people with ambition to rule the great lakes region. In short-run they have succeeded to brainwash people like you and many in this region, but in long-run, their propaganda would be just another myth. To continue with the genocide ideology, the Hutus through their propaganda machine in this region have branded their rivals, Tutsi as very dangerous people who should terminated once and for all. They have used people like a self-proclaimed Reverend Mtikila to spread this ideaolgy because of his connection to them. His wife is a Hutu, a biological sister of Leonard Nyangoma.

There's no such thing as Tutsi Empire and it has never been there. It's a creation aimed at re-branding Tutsi as very dangerous people who should be terminated at any cost. If Tutsi wanted to build that Empire, why did majority of them return back in their country Rwanda during the 1990s RPF military struggle and have remained there till today. Some of you may claim that we still have Tutsi working here, which is true, but we also have more Hutus living and working here more than their rivals.

 

 

 

From: kiishweko orton <kiishorton2000@yahoo.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:08 AM
Subject: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are?

I quote you: "The point is very clear: we have no moral grounds to play a mediation role let alone being advisers of how Rwanda should handle FDLR."

Now, neither did President Kikwete's AU comment nor media content coming from Tanzania's media discourse feign to take over advisory role for Rwanda over the FDLR question.Much of what has come from Tanzania,I see, has been suggestive, and remains so todate.

Yet, I ve seen a number of diversionary media content missives from Rwanda, including this http://congodrcnews.com/2013/05/21/sexual-scandal-after-having-satisfied-his-sexual-thirst-a-tanzanian-soldier-in-drc-wanted-to-flee-without-paying-up-the-agreed-amount/  and convinced to a large extent now that debating this issue ,would certainly lead to no where, save for conclusions that lack all decorum of sensible debate.

O

From: "rmgamba2000@yahoo.com" <rmgamba2000@yahoo.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are?

Orton this is a debate and let us debate it till the last point.

Sent from my HTC

----- Reply message ----- From: "kiishweko orton" <kiishorton2000@yahoo.com> To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> Subject: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? Date: Wed, Jun 19, 2013 07:58

If we cant discuss this topic ,even at a continental forum(AU) over 'sovereignty', 'non interference' issues,then we would rather, forget about this debate.Lets touch other issues where our judgement is not already clouded. Orton

From: "rmgamba2000@yahoo.com" <rmgamba2000@yahoo.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are?

This is another myth...Tutsi empire a myth that is spread by Hutus propaganda machine in Tanzania. It is impossible for the minority Tutsi to conquer Great Lakes region.

The point is very clear: we have no moral grounds to play a mediation role let alone being advisers of how Rwanda should handle FDLR. 

Sent from my HTC

----- Reply message ----- From: "ELISA MUHINGO" <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com> To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> Subject: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? Date: Wed, Jun 19, 2013 01:11

Unawafahamu Banyamulenge? Unaufahamu vizuri na mkoa wa kagera Tanzania. Tukiwa hai mbinguni baada ya miaka 100 eneo hilo litakuwa na tatizo la Banyamulenge --- On Tue, 6/18/13, Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> wrote: From: Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 2:36 PM Elisa, Sahihisho. M23 ni Wakongomani. Hawa walitoroka kutoka jeshi la Kabila. Sijasikia FDLR wakikana lengo lao la kuwateketeza watusi. Huwezi kufanya mazungumzo na mtu anayetaka kukutokomeza. Haiwezekani. em 2013/6/18 ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com> EM Ndiyomaana tunataka wanyarwanda wakae pamoja waongee kuhusu ugomvi wao. FDLR ni wanyarwanda kama RPF Tena na M23 nao ni wnanyarwanda waliotengenezwa kuisumbua DRC na Rwanda ya Kagame inahimiza mazungumzo ya wanyarwanda wa M23 na wakongo. Alistahili kwa hiyo kumuelewa JK. kwa sababu wanyarwanda ni jirani zetu na wakigombana tunadhurika nasi tunawashauri waongee. Ni ndugu hao --- On Tue, 6/18/13, Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> wrote: From: Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 1:00 PM Zephaniah, Ushauri mzuri. Lakini Rwanda ni jirani yetu. Yanayotokea kule kwa hali moja au nyingine yatatugusa. em 2013/6/18 Zephaniah Mugittu <zephymugittu@yahoo.co.uk> Nawashauri tutumie muda wetu huu vyema kujadili mambo yetu ya ndani (Watanzania) kuliko haka kamchezo ka kujadili mambo yasiyo na msingi na WALA hayana mchango wa moja kwa moja kuleta maendeleo yetu hasa in relation to kiwango cha uchumi tulionao... Ni viubishi visivyo na maana hata kidogo kwani mtu kumshauri mwenzake ni jambo la ajabu...hata hao Waisrael wanaweza kushauriwa tu kama alivyofanya kwa Rwanda... KUSHINDWA KUJADILI PIA NI DALILI ZA KUJIONA WAJUA KULIKO WENGINE... KITU AMBACHO SI KILA WAKATI NI KWELI... si kila wakati ubabe unafanyakazi legeza mwili na akili vitu vitafunguka tuuuu HATA HUMU NDANI KWETU TUKIKWEPA MIJADALA NA TUNAOTOFAUTIANA MITAZAMO MF CCM na WAPINZANI tunakoelekea ni kubaya... Kikwete nawe kaa chini na wenzako mmalize matatizo ya ndani kwako kwani ni kuchafu saanaa. Na ktk hili ndilo linifanyalo nisikipende kiCCM mpk kesho nao wanadhani eti waliubwa kukaa madarakani milele... wakati umefika wa anguko lazima waanguke wasitumie UBABE kutaka kuenbdelea kutaka kiubaki madarakani... Usiku mwema   Regards, Mugittu, Zephaniah, Cell: +255 784 769 481 Fax2Email: 0736605633 Skype: Zephaniah N.N. Mugittu   No matter how high one is talented , business acumen still a necessity "Poverty is a result of attitude ..."   From: Peter Lwegasira <petermakatu@yahoo.com>To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2013, 16:52 Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? Nanyoro, You have made a few points though a wrong route. That same moral authority (if any) should be used to sit down with the opposition in our country. This is especially important as we are in the process of regaining our sovereignty as a country, Tanganyika (Draft Union Constitution). I trust this is what Mwalimu says. From: ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? Kwa kweli Ezekiel umenisaidia. Nilikuwa pembeni nasoma maandishi ya mwalimu nayaongea na mmoja wa wanafunzi wake kuwa mwalimu waku huyu Kikweta akisema leo ni jumannd mwali mu huyu atapinga. Ndipo nikaiona ii post yako. Umenipa njia --- On Tue, 6/18/13, ezekiel kunyaranyara <ekunyaranyara@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: ezekiel kunyaranyara <ekunyaranyara@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? To: "wanabidii@googlegroups com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>, "emuganda@gmail.com" <emuganda@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 5:08 AM EM Achana na Mwalimu ana frustrations zake huyo asije akakuambukiza. Postings zake tunapita tu. Tunasubiri apate madaraka uone jinsi atakavyopukutisha wapinzani wake kama mtu anapopoa matunda. Anavisasi huyo... we subiri utaona siku wakikamata madaraka. Omba isitokee ukiwa hai utachoka kabisa. Katika hoja hii wananchi wazalendo wanaoipenda nchi hii tuko pamoja na rais wetu, come what may.... Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com>; To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>; Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 11:47:31 AM Umenena, Mwalimu Lwaitama. Ubarikiwe. em 2013/6/18 Azaveli Lwaitama <kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com> Nawasikitikia Watanzania wanaojitokeza kumtetea Rais wao  eti kwa vile ni Rais wao kuhusu ili  swala. Je wamekaa nakutafakari kwa kina sababu za Rais wao JK kutoa matamshi aliyo yatoa kwa njia aliyo yatoa? Je ikiwa aliyatoa matamshi hayo kuwafurahisha Wafaransa wenye visa na Kagame  bado utetezi wa Rais wao mpendwa  bado  upo pale pale tu basi?   Au na wao  kama wale akina Savimbi wa Rwanda wanaoongoza kikundi   cha FDLR  na wao wanamchukia Kagame kwa sababu zao  nyingine na ili linawazuia kuchunguza   sababu za Rais wao kutumiwa na Wafarasa kusema mambo yasiyo na  mantiki ya eti kwa vile  Al Qaida wanazungumza na Marekani! Wapi bwana ,  kama Wamerekani wangekuwa  wanataka kuzungumza na Al  Qaida wangemuua Bin Laden kinyama  huku Rais wao akiishuhudia kwenye video  kama vile ilikuwa horror movie? Wamarekani wanazungumza na  viongozi wa kijadi wa Talaban  na si eti Al Qaida!   Yaani  Watanzania wanachotwa  kirahisi na matamshi ya viongozi wa serikali  ambayo askari wake wa FFU sasa anatuumiwa  kutupa bomu  katikati ya umati wa watu  waliohudhuria mkutano wa Chadema kwa lengo la kuua Mwenyekiti wa  Chama hicho, yaani Mh Mbowe? Yaani viongozi wa serikali inayofuga watesaji wa Dr Ulimboka  na wauwaji wa  David Mwangosi, wanayo  eti huruma sana  kwa wana wa FDLR  huko Congo  wanaouliwa na  eti utawala wa kidikteta wa Kagame? Come on, give me a break!! Mwl.Lwaitama Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:38:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? From: emuganda@gmail.com To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Elisa, Iweje FDLR leo wawe credible source? Mauaji waliyoyafanya wao hatukuambiwa na Kagame. Ulimwengu wote uliona kwa macho yao. Ndio maana nimesema sijawahi kusikia "organized homicide" iliyofanywa na Kagame. Of course FDLR watajitetea kuwa wao waliua kwa sababu waliuawa kwanza. But where and when? em 2013/6/17 ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com> Ukitaka kujua kuwa na Kagame alifanya organised homicide wasikilizwe FDLR. ndicho Kagame anachokwepa. Tuna mengi hatuyajui tutayajua wakati wa mazungumzo. haya tunayoyajua mengine ni kwa sababu Kagame yuko madarakani na FDLR wako msituni. Waziri wa Mambo ya nje wa Rwanda alisema Kikwete aombe msamaha si Kagame. Huo ndio msimamo wa Kagame ndiyo maana hakukanusha. Yeyote kati yao akisema tunasema Rwanda imesema. --- On Mon, 6/17/13, Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> wrote: From: Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, June 17, 2013, 2:09 PM Elisa, Sina habari kuwa Kagame alifanya "organised homicide" dhidi ya Wahutu kama vile serikali ya Rwanda ilivyo organize interahamwe, kuwapa mafunzo, na kuwahamasisha kwa redio kuua inyenzi. Kama Kagame naye, kama serikali ya Wahutu, aliandalia mauaji hayo unayoyasema, pia alaaniwe. By the way, sijasikia Kagame akisema kuwa anasubri kuombwa msamaha na Kikwete. Hilo lilikuwa ni tamshi la waziri wake wa mambo ya nje nadhani. em On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:04 PM, ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com> wrote: Kagame yeye ameishasamehewa makosa ya mauaji aliyoyafanya kwa wahutu? Muganda jibu hako. Kwa nini tunambembeleza Kagame kwani aliowaua walikuwa wamehukumiwa na mahakama ili uuaji wake uhalalishwe? Kwanini wasisikilizwe FDLR ili upande mweusi wa Kagame ukajulikana? Wacha amabnwe mbavu kwanza itajulikana. Akarorome na kusubiri kuombwa msamaha na Kikwete na FDLR lakini wataomba msamaha warithi wake na watamuomba Msamaha Kikwete na kumuomba awafafanulie na kuwa saidia kuongea na FDLR. Wakati huo JK atakuwa kishauacha urais wa Tz kwa amani --- On Mon, 6/17/13, Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> wrote: From: Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, June 17, 2013, 1:54 PM Nyaronyo, Marekani haizungumzi na Al Qaida, isipokuwa kama kwako kuzungumza ni kuwatumia drones kuwaripua. Marekani inazungumza au itazungumza na Taleban kwa sababu Karzai, kama alivyo Kabila wa Congo, ameshindwa kuunda jeshi lake na anataka Marekani impiganie yeye akiendelea kuvaa suti za kisasa na kukaa kwenye majengo yenye kiyoyozi cha baridi muruwa. Marekani inatafuta njia ya kuondoa jeshi lake Afghanistan "with honour." Kagame alishatoa msamaha kwa Wanyarwanda walioshiriki katika mauaji ya 1994. Kuna ambao wamerudi na kusamehewa chini ya mfumo wa gacaca. Wale wote waliokataa kurudi hawaitaki status quo, wanataka kurejesha utawala wa kiinterahamwe, na hapo ndipo Kikwete alipobugi, your support notwithstanding. em On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:12 PM, nyaronyo kicheere <kicheere@yahoo.com> wrote: bandugu; att. masanja; iam sorry to say this, i mean i am sorry to support jakaya kikwete, so sorry, but i have to do it because you are lying! 1. wamerekani wanazungumza na al qaeda sasa hivi na ndicho chanzo cha kutofautiana na karzai, yeye akihofia watamsaidilaini katika mazungumzo hayo. 2. israel inawawinda manazi walioshiriki kutesa na kuua wayahudi si kila mtu mnazi aliyeshiriki vita kuu ya pili ya dunia upande wa hitler 3. tofauti na manazi wanaowindwa na israel rwanda inakataa kukaa meza moja na jeshi lote la fdrl! kwani jeshi lote la fdrl lilishiriki mauaji ya 1994? 4. you guys wakati mwingine tutumie hekima, kwani ni kila askari wa tanzania aliyekwenda uganda aliua mganda? nauliza ni kila askari wa fdrl aliua? 5. kama hivyo sivyo kwa nini rwanda ikatae kuzungumza na woote? 6. tutumie vichwa vyetu pia, askari wa fdrl walikuwa na umri wa wastani wa miaka mingapi 1994? je hawajazeeka? je watoto wao walijiunga na jeshi gani? je hata watoto wao ambao walikuwa wadogo 1994 na leo ni wakubwa na pengine wamepata ukamanda nao tusijadiliane nao kwa sababu ni watoto wa fdrl walioua 1994? nonsensical; nasema ni upuuzi kwa rwanda, ni upuuzi kwa kagame, ni upuuzi kwa yeyote anayesapoti hoja kama hiyo eti mtu akifanya kosa kubwa kama la genocide hakuna kuzungmza naye, watoto wake na yeyote aliyekuwa naye pamoja hata kama hao walikokuwa naye hawakushiriki mauaji! 7. nawaomba mnaomchukia kikwete kwa sababu ambazo ni dhahiri mkubali pale anapopatia jambo hata kama ni dogo au halina manufaa ya moja kwa moja kwenu 8. mimi nasema na kusisitiza HAKUNA KUOMBA MSAMAHA KWA KAGAME AU KWA RWANDA AU KWA MTUSI YEYOTE YULE  give credit where it is due. mkwere angalau kwa hili moja has made me proud. rwanda na kagame hawawezi kukaa miaka nenda rudi hawazungumzi na fdrl huku fdrl wanazaa huko congo na watusi wa kagame wanazaa huko rwanda na mwiko unabaki pale pale hakuna kuzungumza kana kwamba hawa wa leo ndio wale waliouana 1994 mbona kagame hajahukumiwa kwa ushiriki wake katika genocide ile???????????????????? kicheere, tungi, kigamboni, tanganyika territory - hq dodoma From: Emmanuel Muganda <emuganda@gmail.com>To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? Elisa, Naomba kutofautiana na wewe. Mauaji ya Rwanda yalianza miezi mingi hata kabla ya kutunguliwa kwa ndege ya marais wa Rwanda na Burundi. Nakumbuka hata wakati majadiliano ya Rwanda yalipokuwa yakiendelea Tanzania chini ya rais Mwinyi, Mwalimu Nyerere alimtumia ujumbe Mwinyi amseme rais wa Rwanda juu ya mauaji yaliyokuwa yanafanyika Kigali wakati huo ambapo mazungumzo yalikuwa yanafanyika. Kufikia wakati ndege ya rais wa Rwanda inatunguliwa (naamini kitendo hicho kilifanywa na hardliners katika jeshi lake ambao walikuwa hawataki kusikia makubaliano yoyote na RPF) usiku huo huo mauaji yalisambaa. Hayakuwa random. Yalipangwa. em On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:18 AM, ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com> wrote: Masanja. Wacha ukandamizaji hapa. Mauaji ya Rwanda 1994 HAYAKUANZA KWA MAUAJI YA WATUTSI. yALIANZA KWA MAUAJI YA mARAIS WAWILI WA rWANBDA NA bURUNDI. Huwezi kuanzia katikati ukaelewa chapter ya kitabu. Anzia Mwanzao. Kukundi cha kigaidi kikiitwa RPF kilikuwa kinapigana Rwanda kikitokea Uganda. Serikasli ya Rwanda chini ya Habyalimana ilikubaliana kuongea nacho. kwanini baada ya kikundi chenyewe kuindia madarakani kisikubali kuongea na kikundi kingine. Nakumbuka zamani fulani Rais El Nimeri wa Sudani aliwahi kukemea mapinduzi ya kijeshi. Nyerere alimshangaa kwa sababu yeye aliingia kwa mapinduzi. Iwe Kikwete ameongea na FDLR au hakuongea nao pendekezo lake ni valid. Watanzania tusipoungana nyuma ya Rais Kikwete katika hili tutakuwa wa ajabu La msingi t8usianzie katikati tuanze mwanzo mauaji ya Rwanda ya 1994 hayakuanza kwa mauaji ya watutsi ila kwa mauaji ya Marais wawili. Nani aliyewaua? Ni mazungumzio ya RPF na FDLR (wote wanyarwanda) ndiyo yataweza kuonyesha ukweli. Bila hilo mnaendeleea kumsikiliza muuaji mmoja tu na anawazubaisha msimsikilize muuaji mwenzake --- On Mon, 6/17/13, Albert Masanja <albertmasanja@gmail.com> wrote: From: Albert Masanja <albertmasanja@gmail.com> Subject: [wanabidii] Re: Kikwete in Trouble Over FDLR, but Does He Really Understand Who They Are? To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, June 17, 2013, 6:44 AM I concur with Frederick Golooba-Mutebi ideas. Let me put this way: When did President Kikwete received a request from FDLR to negotiate with Rwanda? The answer to this question is simple: Kikwete visited France this year and as evidence that he was told to forward the idea (as France is well established of its accomplice role in 1994 genocide in Rwanda), the Radio France Internationale (RFI) asked President Kikwete after a summit. This means that they already knew what Kikwete stated in the summit or in other words, they wanted to confirm if he said what he was supposed to say. Rwanda as an independent country has refused Kikwete's uninvited advise. Why in the hell does Kikwete thru Membe insist??!! I was discussing with a group of people. We come to agree that, Rwanda as our neighbour deserves respect especially when it comes to what happened in their country in 1994. Tanzania has no moral authority to tell Rwanda to talk to the same group of people who still have such ideology of coming back to finish unfinished business, that is killing the remaining Tutsis. We came to conclusion that, if President Kikwete would have told Israel to talk to Nazis as they have been looking for them for the past 60 years, we would be sure that despite having security personnel to protect him, he would have died by now. second, if he will tells President Obama to talk to Al-Qaeeda as they have been fighting them for more than 20 years without a win then, we can say that there is no double standard in handling terrorists. Moreover, it is clear that he is now looking for SADC support though they (SADC) didn't tell him to give such a statement. Surprising, the SADC is trapped in Kikwete's statement. As a regional block, it is not supposed to discuss non-member state. They would have either invited non-member or they engage the non-member diplomatically. SADC approach is bad precedence to other regional groupings as it will open uncalled interference in groupings hence threatening sovereign decisions.   -- Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com   Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma   Disclaimer: Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. 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