Saturday 6 October 2012

Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal

Courage, I have always respected your arguments, don't disappoint me on this one; how could you say that Lake Nyasa belongs 'legally' to Malawi? Do you know the Heligoland treaty that gave Malawi right to lake Nyasa, and the treaty that was signed soon after the WWI? What did this second treaty say?
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Vodacom Tanzania

-----Original Message-----
From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 12:35:13
To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal

Mike,

You are providing a wrong comparison. In other words, you're advancing
a false argument. The comparison to eyes and arms does not fit.

International norms now recommend that water bodies such as Nyasa,
Tanganyika and Victoria be shared equally between the associated
countries. That is how Canada and US now share the Great Lakes.

But the fact is that Lake Nyasa legally belongs to Malawi for now. The
best outcome here would be that the Lake is shared equally between Tz
and Malawi but Malawi is offered something in exchange. A passage to
the sea would be a good offer.

Courage



On 10/6/12, Mike Zunzu <mikezunzu@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Can you give one of your eye to someone in order to save your hand to be
> chopped off.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 8:55
> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>
> Shedrack,
>
> why don't you guys give Malawii a passage to the sea in exchange for
> part of the lake you're claiming? I think that would be a fitting and
> mature compromise.
>
> Courage
>
>
>
> On 10/6/12, shedrack maximilian <shedrack_maximilian@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Tony
>> Sijui ujinga wa watz uko wapi katika huu mgogoro!? Be specific
>>
>> lakini kuhusu Malawi kudepend Kwa waingereza au yeyote yule kuhusu kwamba
>> ziwa ni lao mimi naona ni uwezo mdogo wa kufikiri ,Wale wapo tu
>> kuchonganisha mara zote.Wkumbuke kuwa Malawi sawa na Tanzania ni nchi
>> zinazokua na watu wake ni masikini sana na hivyo kusema kweli hatuitaji
>> kutumia pesa kupigana vita ambayo kwa hakika itawaua na kuharibu mali za
>> hao
>> watu wetu masikini.Kama hawatakaa katika mazungumzo shauri yao,Tutaingia
>> katika vita  ,tutaumizana na mwisho wa siku tutakaa katika meza
>> kuzungumza
>> .wazungu hawataweza kuwasaidia chochote kile na wala hawana rasilimali za
>> kuwafanya wazungu wasimame upande wao kwasabau wako kwa ajili ya masilahi
>> yao.
>> Jamani mama Banda utaumiza watu wako jama!!
>>
>> Shedrack Maximilian
>>
>> B.Sc. Env.Health Science
>>
>> Bagamoyo District Council, Tanzania
>>
>> shedrack_maximilian@yahoo.co.uk
>>
>> +255(0754)944-504
>>
>> +255(0715)844-504
>>
>> --- On Wed, 3/10/12, Tony PT <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> From: Tony PT <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>> Date: Wednesday, 3 October, 2012, 7:13
>>
>> Pius,
>>
>> Sisi waTz huwa mazezeta kwelikweli! Inabidi ifike wakati Kenya tuwaambie
>> kuuza mmlima wetu inabidi walipe royalty na tufunge mpaka wote ili
>> watalii
>> wakitaka kuja kuona mlima wapitie Uganda au zanzibar au kwa ndege!
>>
>> Ujinga wetu ndio umefanya Malawi kujiaminisha kuwa ziwa lote ni la kwao!
>> Hivi kweli Malawi watasemaje hivyo wakati kuna taarifa ya mabonde (Great
>> Lakes Basins),  mito na maziwa zinatamka na wao kujua kuwa maji karibu
>> asilimia 63 yanatoka milima ya Livingston, Lukumburu, njombe, Ludewa,
>> mbinga, Songea, mito na  maji ya mvua ndani ya mipaka ya Tz ziwani!
>>
>> Wakileta kichaa sasa tutalichukua ziwa lote, yaani tunabadili mipaka iwe
>> upande wa magharibi mwa ziwa, tuone kama wataona sawa!
>> Leo tunaweza kuanzisha man-made inland lakes upande wa Tz na ziwa
>> litanyauka
>> kwa asilimia isiyopungua 70. Maana ziwa hilo linapata asilimia karibu 42
>> ya
>> maji ya mito upande wa Tz, 21 ya maji ya mvua ziwani, na 27 ya maji ya
>> mito
>> na mvua upande wa malawi!
>> Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
>> Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de
>> Bell.From:  Pius Makomelelo <makomelelopius@yahoo.co.uk>
>> Sender:  wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 06:45:01 +0100 (BST)To:
>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com<wanabidii@googlegroups.com>ReplyTo:
>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>> Kwa mtaji huu inabidi tuwe macho hata na hawa watani wetu wa jadi
>> wanaotumia
>> utalii kutanganza mlima Kilimanjaro uko kwao! Yule mama Banda katangaza
>> rasmi kuwa hataki tena mazungumzo! Hana imani na Tanzania. Hana imani na
>> JK
>> eti wtz tumezindua ramani mpya na kufukuza wavuvi wamalawi. Katumwa, sasa
>> naona anachotafuta wakati muafaka umefika wa kumpa. Kalewa madaraka. Wtz
>> tuweni makini, lazima kuna agenda za kikoloni zinatengenezwa. Banda
>> mkubwa
>> alitambulika ukanda wetu huu kama kibaraka. Ni jadi yao hawa, hatuna haja
>> ya
>> kupoteza muda kujadiliana nao! Dawa ya kibaraka ni kumshughulikia kabla
>> hata
>> hajaota mbawa za kutosha.
>>
>>
>>        From: Felix Mwakyembe <fkyembe@gmail.com>
>>  To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>  Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 23:29
>>  Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>
>> Ukweli ni kwamba hapa tulipofika tumepatengeza wenyewe kwa kuwakubalia
>> Wamalawi katika mambo ya Ziwa hilo.
>>
>> Walianza kwa kubadili jina kutoka jina la asili la Nyasa ambalo
>> linajumuisha
>> wote wanaopakana na hilo Ziwa na kuliita Malawi wakiengua upande wa
>> Tanzania, tulikaa kimya na kuwapigia makofi.
>>
>>
>> Walitengeza ramani zenye kuonyesha mpaka kuwa ufukwe wa Tanzania, nasi
>> tukazitumia pasipo kuhoji!!!
>>
>> Malawi walihakikisha kizazi cha sasa kisifahamu lolote kuhusu jina la
>> Nyasa
>> na mpaka kuwa katikati ya ziwa, walielewa walichokuwa wakifanya, wakati
>> sisi
>> tukiwa hatuelewi tunataka nini.
>>
>>
>> Imefika wakati Jumuiya za Kimataifa zinatambua hivyo, na hata miradi ya
>> kiuchumi inayohusu ziwa hilo, wenye kunufaika ni Malawi, kwa upande wetu
>> hata miradi hukataliwa na taasisi za nje, labda huo mradi uhusishe na
>> wamalawi.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tumelea wenyewe!!
>>
>> On 2 October 2012 23:19, Dr. Hamisi A. Kigwangalla
>> <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> safi sana, msimamo wangu kwa hakika unafanana na wa kwako, na kwa kweli
>> demokrasia ikishindwa - twende vitani tu tuwatandike nduli hawa chini ya
>> uongozi wa yule mama mkaidi anayeitwa Nduli Grace
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Mobhare Matinyi <matinyi@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dkt. Kigwangalla,
>>
>>
>>
>> Usiwe na shaka, hatutaki vita na tutafanya mazungumzo mpaka mwisho,
>> ikishindikana zitapigwa. Kuna Wakurya kama laki mbili - vijana watupt na
>> hawana kazi baada ya migodi yao ya dhahabu kuporwa na wawekezaji na
>> ng'ombe
>> kuibiwa na majambazi; hawa ukitangaza vita watakuja kama mvua, achilia
>> mbali
>> tulioko huku majuu, tutarudi wote golini tujazane. Hebu fikiria kila mkoa
>> ukitoa vijana wake laki moja wasiokuwa na kazi itakuwaje? Tutawapiga
>> washikaji zetu kwa kutembea na miguu na bakora bila bunduki, na hatumui
>> mtu,
>> ni bakora tupu ila baraa lote la mawaziri tutawachukua tuje nao huku
>> mjini,
>> tuwarundike Keko.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mmarekani mmoja, sasa balozi mstaafu baaa ya kulitumikia jeshi pia na
>> kufanya kazi ya kufundisha Wakenya, aliniambia kwamba wakati Watanzania
>> wanaingia Uganda yeye alikuwa kijana mdogo akifanya kazi na wamisionari.
>> Anasema miaka yote aliyokuwa jeshini Marekani alikuwa anawakumbuka wale
>> Watanzania jinsi walivyokuwa na nidhamu ya kijeshi na jinsi walivyowaua
>> Walibya. Anasema kwamba rekodi hazisemi ukweli kuwa eti walikufa Waarabu
>> 600
>> tu, anasema Kampala peke yake walizidi 1,000. Anasema Watanzania ni
>> habari
>> nyingine kabisa.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hatutaki vita lakini lazima ziwa tulidhibiti; iwe isiwe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Matinyi.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:06:28 +0300
>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>> From: hkigwangalla@gmail.com
>>
>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Felix, ninachokumbuka tu ni kwamba nilikula samaki mtamu anayeitwa Mbasa
>> kwa
>> ndizi safi za mbeya...and notable was the way yule samaki na yule kuku
>> alivyokuwa amechoma...
>>
>>
>> utamu wa samaki yule maalum kwa ajili ya wageni wanaokuja kule mwambao wa
>> ziwa Nyasa ni yule samaki, na nitakuwa tayari kushiriki vita ya
>> kulikomboa
>> lile Ziwa ili wajukuu zangu waendelee kula Mbasa maisha yao yote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Felix Mwakyembe <fkyembe@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hahahahaha, huku note tu pale una kuwa connected Malawi simu zote, kwa
>> hiyo
>> nawe siku hiyo ulikuwa Malawi!!!!!
>>
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 October 2012 22:14, Dr. Hamisi A. Kigwangalla
>> <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mwakyex, nakumbuka voda yangu ilikuwa inashika...ila siku-notice kingine
>> chochote cha ajabu. airtel haikuwa inakamata
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Felix Mwakyembe <fkyembe@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dr Kigwa,
>>
>> Hivi ulipokuwa pale Nduli, Kyela simu zako zilishika net za wapi!!!!
>>
>>
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 October 2012 18:19, Dr. Hamisi A. Kigwangalla
>> <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Moderator, mfute huyu MMalawi kwenye hili group, anatutia hasira na
>> vichefu
>> chefu hapa. Hana kingine anachochangia zaidi ya Lake Nyasa tu...nadhani
>> anafanya kazi ya kiintelijensia ya kutaka kujua tunasema nini na tuna
>> hoja
>> zipi kwenye hili suala...ONDOA HUYU HARAKA tafadhali...
>>
>>
>> Tuliishasema Tanzania italinda mipaka yake, na tuko tayari kwa lolote
>> wakati
>> wowote...waache kutuchokonoa chokonoa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Hosea Ndaki <hosea.ndaki@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hayo mafuta tunaweza tafiti kama joint project kama yapo! nadhani hao
>> wavuvi
>> wa dagaa wanasail bila matata. Mazungumzo pia yalenge kuishawishi malawi
>> kujiunga EAC sawa na Burundi na Rwanda wanaweza faidika zaidi.
>>
>>
>> Kama kuna economic advantage ya kuwekeza katika meli basi Bakhresa au
>> Songoro wanaweza wekeza huko
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:51 PM, ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Na meli aliyoahidi Rais ijengwe  ianze safari zake kwenye port zetu.
>> mafuta
>> waendelee kutafiti ila wsichimbe etc
>>
>> --- On Tue, 10/2/12, Hosea Ndaki <hosea.ndaki@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Hosea Ndaki <hosea.ndaki@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>
>>
>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>> Date: Tuesday, October 2, 2012, 3:35 AM
>>
>>
>> Si vibaya mazungumzo yakaendelea ilimradi hakuna chombo chenye nembo au
>> bendera ya malawi majini. Naimani mazungumzo haya yatakuwa kama ya
>> kuondoa
>> kero za muungano yaani hayana kikomo.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Nilidhani mjadala wetu unatokana na hiyo mikataba (treaties)
>> inasema nini na sisi tunaitafsiri namna gani.
>> 2. Nilitegemea tuelimishane katika hili kama ambavyo baadhi yetu
>>
>>
>> wamekuwa wakifanya ili tupate a way forward.
>> 3. Sikujua kama mtu akijaribu kutoa tafsiri inayosemwa kwenye hiyo
>> mikataba anamsaidia "enemy" na anakuwa "traitor".
>> 4. Mfano, nilichochangia kinatokana na jinsi nilivyoelewa Article 15
>>
>>
>> of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)
>> (Montego Bay, December 10, 1982) on Delimitation of the Territorial
>> Sea between States with Opposite or Adjacent coasts:
>>
>> "Where the coasts of two States are opposite or adjacent to each
>>
>>
>> other, neither of the two States is entitled, failing agreement
>> between them to the contrary, to extend its territorial sea beyond the
>> median line every point of which is equidistant from the nearest
>> points on the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial seas
>>
>>
>> of each of the two States is measured. The above provision does not
>> apply, however, where it is necessary by reason of historic title or
>> other special circumstances to delimit the territorial seas of the two
>> States in a way which is at variance therewith."
>>
>>
>>
>> 4. Inawezekana tafsiri yangu si sahihi au ya wachangiaji wenzangu.
>> 5. Ili kupata mwanga ni lazima kila mmoja aeleze tasiri yake na
>> ipambanishwe na tafsiri nyingine au ushahidi wenye uzito zaidi.
>> 6. Nilikuwa katika stage hii.
>>
>>
>> 7. Lakini kumbe wenzangu mmevuka hapa na ndiyo maana baadhi mnaanza
>> kunishambulia.
>> 8. Ila sasa kama majadiliano yanakuwa ya namna hii na hasa
>> kumshambulia mchangiaji na badala ya kutetea hoja tutajifunza nini?
>>
>>
>> 9. Katika yote niliyosema sijamsaidia "enemy" na wala sijawa "traitor"
>> kama baadhi ya wachangiaji wanavyodhani. Napenda nchi yangu Tanzania
>> kama Watanzania wengine wanavyoipenda ila kwa hili tungeelemishana
>>
>>
>> namna gani tunaweza kufikia mwafaka bila ya kusababisha mafarakano.
>> 10. Mwisho niseme: I love to see this issue resolved peacefully
>> without engaging in any war as President Jakaya Kikwete said recently.
>> Wars have never been solutions to African problems!
>>
>>
>> 11. Let's not attack others simply because their
>> opinions/interpretations are different from ours.
>>
>> On 10/2/12, Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sina la kuchangia zaidi ya kushangaa na kusikitika!
>>>
>>> On 10/1/12, denis Matanda <denis.matanda@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Acheni kumshambulia Magobe bure. Busara inatakiwa itumike hapa......
>>>> On Oct 1, 2012 8:05 PM, "Godfrey Ngupula" <ngupula@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys.suala la Tz na Malawi lilivyo,ile speed ya kujenga kwanza
>>>>> tensiona kisha kuingia ktk discusion ndio ilitakiwa. kwa speed na
>>>>> mikwara
>>
>>
>>>>> ya bwana Lowasa,huu mgogoro tungeumaliza kwa kupata nusu ya ziwa kama
>>>>> ilivyokuwa mwanzo.Nyerere alifanikiwa kuishi na Banda kwa miaka yote
>>>>> kwa
>>>>> style hiyohiyo. Lakini,kwa style ya bwana Jk,ya kutafuta zaidi
>>>>> uswahiba
>>
>>
>>>>> na
>>>>> urafiki kuliko haki,am telling you.Tanzania at last tutaambulia
>>>>> possibly
>>>>> less than 5& ya lake nyasa..Tumeshuhudia jinsi mgogoro wa matumizi ya
>>>>> maji
>>>>> ya ziwa victoria na mkataba wa kikoloni na misri.Bila ya mkwara wa
>>
>>
>>>>> aliyekuwa waziri wa maji of that time,tusingefika.Godfrey Ngupula
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 7:32 PM EEST ezekiel kunyaranyara wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Brother
>>>>> >Matinyi,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >When
>>>>> >I saw Mr Magobes' thread down here on this saga this morning, I felt
>>
>>
>>>>> > like
>>>>> nausea.
>>>>> >I was really infuriated by his comments (just to be fair and frank)
>>>>> > and
>>>>> >thought that may be he is not a Tanzanian. I immediately prepared a
>>
>>
>>>>> > reply
>>>>> thread
>>>>> >which after reading it twice before posting it, only to find that it
>>>>> > will
>>>>> be
>>>>> >tasteless to most of these forum contributors.
>>
>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I
>>>>> >decided to keep tight-lipped and see if others will like his
>>>>> > comments.
>>>>>  Now I understand that no any Tanzanian likes
>>>>> >Magobes' comments. From your comments now it is obvious that Magobe
>>>>> > has
>>
>>
>>>>> > a
>>>>> >vested interest in this Saga. May be he is a Malawian, a traitor or
>>>>> "unnecessary
>>>>> >coward".
>>>>> >
>>>>> >My
>>>>> >advice to him is that he mutes his computer or mobile keyboards and
>>
>>
>>>>> > stops
>>>>> downhammering our serious efforts and ridicule Tanzanians with
>>>>> >meaningless pass off and advices that will ultimately sink down
>>>>> >their sprit in looking for their right. It is better he understands
>>
>>
>>>>> > that,
>>>>> we
>>>>> >(all Tanzanians) are serious in this concern and we do not want any
>>>>> > body
>>>>> to scam
>>>>> >with our lake. If he cannot assist us then he is against us.
>>
>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I
>>>>> >find this as a way of sharing with him my comments that reflect my
>>>>> feelings
>>>>> >towards his comments.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >KEMS
>>
>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >________________________________
>>>>> > From: Mobhare Matinyi <matinyi@hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>>>>> >To: Wanabidii googlegroups <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> >Sent: Monday, 1 October 2012, 6:21
>>
>>
>>>>> >Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >My colleague Magobe,
>>>>> >You seem to love Malawi so much - what did you get from these people
>>
>>
>>>>> > when
>>>>> you spent some time in their land during your missionary/etc work?
>>>>> >Anyway, we are not discussing the Treaty alone; we are discussing the
>>>>> whole issue and that is why we think our motherland - Tanzania - has
>>
>>
>>>>> legitimate claims.
>>>>> >Matinyi.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 11:26:40 +0300
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>
>>
>>>>> >> From: tmagobe@gmail.com
>>>>> >> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The lake under dispute belongs to God. Tanzania and Malawi claim
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> lake belongs to them - Tanzania: half of it and Malawi: the whole
>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >> the lake. At this point, there is no party, which is wrong or
>>>>> >> right.
>>
>>
>>>>> >> If we go by what treats say, the whole lake belongs to Malawi. We
>>>>> >> may
>>>>> >> want to use 'muscles' but they don't help in things that are clear.
>>>>> >> If
>>
>>
>>>>> >> we want, we can convince Malawi to give us half of the lake but
>>>>> >> just
>>>>> >> force doesn't change the treaties under discussion.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On 10/1/12, Willy Makundi <wrlmakundi@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > Ndugu Matinyi, let Mr Banda and all Malawians know that the world
>>>>> >> > did
>>>>> not
>>>>> >> > begin in 1890, neither is a Treaty between two robbers a
>>>>> >> > definitive
>>
>>
>>>>> word on
>>>>> >> > the rights of the robbed. Could anyone tell me how the life of
>>>>> >> > the
>>>>> people on
>>>>> >> > the eastern shore changed the day after Germany and United
>>>>> >> > Kingdom
>>
>>
>>>>> signed
>>>>> >> > this treaty divvying up spheres of influence. Was there a single
>>>>> fisherman
>>>>> >> > who stopped fishing or a swimmer who applied for a visa to take a
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > dip
>>>>> in the
>>>>> >> > lake?
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > This treaty can NOT and SHOULD NOT bind owners of the rights to
>>>>> >> > the
>>
>>
>>>>> lake
>>>>> >> > prior to the treaty, unless one shows me where the Wamandas,
>>>>> Nyakyusas,
>>>>> >> > Matengos, Wanyasa signed off their rights to their water, fish
>>>>> >> > and
>>
>>
>>>>> lake
>>>>> >> > resources. Lets not be ridiculous. Tanzania should make it very
>>>>> >> > clear
>>>>> that
>>>>> >> > the riparian rights of the people around lake Malawi/Nyasa have
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > never
>>>>> been
>>>>> >> > up for negotiation neither interrupted for a thousand years
>>>>> >> > before
>>>>> Kaiser
>>>>> >> > and the King came up with the idea of sphere of influence - what
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > ever
>>>>> that
>>>>> >> > means. Sphere of influence za wazungu inahusianaje na mbasa za
>>>>> Wanyakyusa?
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > A Mmanda shall never ever need a visa to go fetch drinking water
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > from
>>>>> a Lake
>>>>> >> > whose main inlet for the northern waters is from rivers like
>>>>> >> > Songwe
>>>>> flowing
>>>>> >> > from Tanzania. The Malawians and the world should know that we
>>>>> >> > will
>>
>>
>>>>> defend
>>>>> >> > our riparian rights with whatever means necessary and that there
>>>>> shall not
>>>>> >> > be a Malawian or their vessels that shall ever be safe once they
>>
>>
>>>>> cross the
>>>>> >> > median line of the lake - unless and until our riparian rights to
>>>>> >> > the
>>>>> lake
>>>>> >> > are affirmed by Malawi and the international community. Period!
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Meanwhile we should prepare ourselves to defend the rights of our
>>>>> people
>>>>> >> > near Lake Malawi. I am not a war hawk but I surely will not give
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > away
>>>>> >> > inalienable rights of my people because some King and a Kaiser
>>>>> >> > signed
>>>>> some
>>>>> >> > Treaty in the North Sea. I am an old man but for this cause, I
>>>>> >> > will
>>
>>
>>>>> take up
>>>>> >> > arms if Malawi and the world choose to be irresponsibly
>>>>> >> > unreasonable.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Tuache kumumunya maneno, haki zetu za ziwa hatukuwahi kuwapa
>>
>>
>>>>> Wajerumani wala
>>>>> >> > Waingereza na kwa uhakika sio Wamalawi. Sio kiburi, sio ubabe, ni
>>>>> kuweka
>>>>> >> > wazi kosa la uchoraji ramani ambao haukutilia maanani haki za
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > msingi
>>>>> za
>>>>> >> > wakazi. Hata tungekuwa wadogo kama Shelisheli hii haki
>>>>> >> > tungeipigania
>>>>> hata
>>>>> >> > kwa miaka alfu. Ni Mungu tu anaweza kutunyima haki ya matumizi ya
>>
>>
>>>>> maji.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Mchilyi7.0
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >> > From: Mobhare Matinyi <matinyi@hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > To: Wanabidii googlegroups <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> >> > Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 8:57 pm
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters
>>>>> >> > reveal
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Banda and your fellow supporters, and Malawians,
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > It is foolish to ask London to comment on that issue because they
>>>>> >> > are
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> > ones who messed up everything, not once, but many times.
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > For your information, in the 1926 House of Commons hansards the
>>>>> British
>>>>> >> > secretary of colonies is recorded to have said: "I don't know
>>>>> >> > where
>>
>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> > border is" - when he was asked to clarify on the issue. That was
>>>>> >> > 1926.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Again, in the 1950s when the British were redrawing the borders
>>>>> >> > of
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > the
>>>>> >> > Rhodesian Federation that would have included Malawi, Zambia and
>>>>> Zimbabwe,
>>>>> >> > they got into debate over the same border and decided to trash
>>>>> >> > the
>>
>>
>>>>> 1930s map
>>>>> >> > in favor of the new map that placed the lake inside Malawi. Why
>>>>> >> > did
>>>>> they
>>>>> >> > discuss the matter among themselves if the issue was clear?
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Here is another note: The facts as shown below regarding the
>>>>> >> > British
>>>>> mandate
>>>>> >> > over Tanganyika (given by the League of Nations) and the
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > trusteeship
>>>>> (given
>>>>> >> > by the UNO) are incorrect. Please refer to my earlier briefings
>>>>> >> > on
>>>>> the same
>>>>> >> > detail which can also be found in a few studies including a PhD
>>
>>
>>>>> dissertation
>>>>> >> > by a Tanzanian which is still going on.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Thank you.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Matinyi.
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:46:21 -0400
>>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters
>>>>> >> > reveal
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > From: emuganda@gmail.com
>>>>> >> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Charles Banda,
>>>>> >> > It is not a question of oil and gas. If the whole lake belongs to
>>>>> Malawi
>>>>> >> > then Tanzania has no right to use the lake,
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > and fish in it.
>>>>> >> > em
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Charles Banda
>>>>> >> > <chasbanda@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Tanzania already has oil & gas, it does not want poor Malawi to
>>>>> >> > enjoy
>>>>> its
>>>>> >> > own cake.
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > Word that Iranian oil tankers are flying Tanzanian national flag
>>>>> >> > Politics and economy.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Deogratias Kawonga
>>>>> >> > <deogratias.kawonga@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Matinyi,
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Huyu Jamaa kaanza tena
>>>>> >> >
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>
>>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > On Sep 30, 2012, at 16:51, Charles Banda <chasbanda@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > As Malawi and Tanzania grapple with finding solutions to the Lake
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > Malawi boundary wrangle, Downing Street memos on the issue during
>>>>> >> > the
>>>>> >> > Hastings Kamuzu Banda era we have seen build a strong case for
>>
>>
>>>>> >> > Malawi.
>>>>> >> > The memos were written in the 1960s when the dispute first
>>>>> >> > surfaced
>>>>> after
>>>>> >> > then Tanzanian president Julius Nyerere wrote London, complaining
>>
>>
>>>>> about
>>>>> >> > Banda's "expansionist" policy that was claiming the whole of Lake
>>>>> Malawi
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
>>
>>
>>>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
>>>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>>>>
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>> Hamisi A. Kigwangalla, MD, MPH, MBA
>> P.O.Box 22499,
>> Dar es salaam.
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>> Phone No: +255 754 636963
>>
>>
>>                 +255 782 636963
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>> Hamisi A. Kigwangalla, MD, MPH, MBA
>> P.O.Box 22499,
>> Dar es salaam.
>> Tanzania.
>> Phone No: +255 754 636963
>>                 +255 782 636963
>>
>>
>> website: www.peercorpstrust.org or www.hamisikigwangalla.com
>> Email: hamisi.kigwangalla@peercorpstrust.org or
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>>
>>
>> Skype ID: hkigwangalla
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> --
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>> Hamisi A. Kigwangalla, MD, MPH, MBA
>> P.O.Box 22499,
>> Dar es salaam.
>> Tanzania.
>> Phone No: +255 754 636963
>>
>>
>>                 +255 782 636963
>> website: www.peercorpstrust.org or www.hamisikigwangalla.com
>>
>>
>> Email: hamisi.kigwangalla@peercorpstrust.org or
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> --
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>> Hamisi A. Kigwangalla, MD, MPH, MBA
>> P.O.Box 22499,
>> Dar es salaam.
>> Tanzania.
>>
>>
>> Phone No: +255 754 636963
>>                 +255 782 636963
>>
>> website: www.peercorpstrust.org or www.hamisikigwangalla.com
>>
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>>
>>
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