account146w qt4,
Stop being ignorantly sensational! There is
NOWHERE where "Bensouda can now use even dead witnesses speeches"!
Statements of witnesses who cannot appear were allowed, but with a
clear caveat that they cannot be used in the Kenyan cases!!! Read, and
understand, and STOP relying on passers-by gossip!!!
Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.
On 11/30/13, Faiza Hassan <wasitara@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interpretation: Can Bensoudi use statement of dead witnesses?
> On Nov 30, 2013 8:18 PM, "account146w qt4" <account146w@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you guys realized that anytime the kenyan foreign mission against
>> ICC
>> cases gets something positive then; Bensouda gets extra things on top?.
>> Can you imagine this Bensouda can now use even dead witnesses speeches.
>> The
>> other time she was allowed to introduce more witnesses to testify against
>> Uhuru Kenyatta. The more the postponement the worse for these Kenyans
>> facing ICC. I still think that if ICC had nothing genuine against these 2
>> kenyans they would have already terminated these cases. But Not
>> yet......................Something is cooking very hot for these Kenyans,
>> which will be very hard to swallow.
>>
>> > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 17:04:37 +0300
>> > Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > From: okil@nyamogoadvocates.com
>> > To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > CC: uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com; wanakenya@googlegroups.com;
>> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; thelastwordtokenya@yahoogroups.com;
>> NVK-Mageuzi@yahoogroups.com; wananchi@yahoogroups.com;
>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com; Kiswahili@yahoogroups.com;
>> kenya-can@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > KM,
>> > I am also happy that i seem to detect some sense of genuine
>> > realism coming from the West on this ICC quagmire! The ICC is a
>> > calamity waiting to happen and, i believe, it is in everyone's
>> > interest that it is handled soberly!
>> >
>> > I will never tire up stating that the ICC lost the plot when they
>> > openly declared that there was nothing to stop Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta
>> > and William Samoei Ruto from running for office! Now they must live
>> > with the reality that they have a novel situation where they are not
>> > only trying a "sitting President" but, equally, a "Commander-in-Chief"
>> > in actual command of "armed forces"! I don't know why this simple, yet
>> > pregnant, fact cannot sink in with some people!!! Even the GREAT
>> > America CANNOT do anything about that without getting hurt and, if we
>> > keep encouraging the West in that direction, WE SHALL get hurt, too,
>> > as a people!!! Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta may very well genuinely want to
>> > go to The Hague, but i believe Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta will only go to
>> > The Hague when/after/if "The Commander-in-Chief of The Kenya Defence
>> > Forces" says that Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta may go to The Hague!!! If you
>> > doubt me, check with The Kenya Defence Forces; what it means to them,
>> > having their "Commander-in-Chief" physically present before The ICC!!!
>> > Ambassador Amina Mohammed should,also, be cautioned
>> > that her daily pronouncements of her perceived "success" on these ICC
>> > issues are NOT good negotiating skills, in any forum, but especially
>> > in a forum of sovereign States! Equally dangerous, is the demand for a
>> > special session specifically to amend The Rome Statute and making that
>> > public before the fact! That puts States in a "pressure-cooker" mode,
>> > and is usually a recipe for rejection, simply out of pride! I'd have
>> > sued for quiet diplomacy until i was "cock-sure" of the numbers!!!
>> > Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.
>> >
>> > On 11/30/13, Nyamodi Ochieng Nyamogo <okil@nyamogoadvocates.com> wrote:
>> > > Pastor Birai,
>> > > I detect, and detest, dishonesty in what you are
>> > > saying! You are taking this stance simply because certain things are
>> > > NOT going PREDICTABLY the way you'd have wished! Debate on current
>> > > affairs is no "prediction"! If it chances that, later, results fall
>> > > in
>> > > place, then that's life!!!
>> > > Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.
>> > >
>> > > On 11/29/13, Geoffrey Omollo <kidikibudi@outlook.com> wrote:
>> > >> Wacha za ovyo askofu. Sasa hiyo ya kila mtu najua matako yako
>> > >> imetoka
>> > >> wapi?
>> > >>
>> > >> Mimi najua tu ile ya Kariuki Chotara: Hayati Mtukufu Rais Moi, hii
>> watu
>> > >> yote
>> > >> iko nyuma ya matako yako na matashika matako yako kwa nguvu yote
>> > >> hadi
>> > >> mwisho. Usiogope maadui ya serikali yako hayati mtukufu, mimi
>> matafanya
>> > >> watu
>> > >> hii yote mashike matako yako yote bila kuachiria ndiyo uenderee
>> kutawara
>> > >> mirere.
>> > >>
>> > >> Waigwa?
>> > >>
>> > >> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the
>> Year' in
>> > >> 2006...As indicated on my Resume.
>> > >>
>> > >> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:25:54 -0500
>> > >> Subject: RE: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru
>> > >> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >> From: kjmwangi@gmail.com
>> > >> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > >>
>> > >> Hii Kiswahili ya wapi kijana Omollo? Pastor Birai is Swahilically
>> > >> challenged
>> > >> and could quote you on mtu kumi. Do you need some classes from me on
>> > >> Swahili? Even kaliech of rais moi kila mtu anajua matako yako kabisa
>> > >> could
>> > >> not make such a mistake.
>> > >>
>> > >> Bei ya kufunzwa kiswahili na Mwalimu Kuria ni nafuu.
>> > >> On Nov 29, 2013 12:56 PM, "Geoffrey Omollo" <kidikibudi@outlook.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Pastor,
>> > >>
>> > >> Umesema kama mtu kumi.
>> > >>
>> > >> Pewa gorogoro moja ya chai ya soya hapo kwa bill yangu.
>> > >>
>> > >> Barikiwa!
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the
>> Year' in
>> > >> 2006
>> > >> ...As indicated on my Resume.
>> > >>
>> > >> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:51:57 -0600
>> > >>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru
>> > >> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >> From: prbirai@gmail.com
>> > >> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Geoffrey
>> > >> What is amazing is how precise these guys think they are. They speak
>> with
>> > >> authority and don't like when others differ with them. This is where
>> egos
>> > >> crash and crash hard.What we forget is that way before Uhuru and
>> > >> Ruto
>> > >> came
>> > >> into power, there was Kenyatta, Moi and Kibaki. They all had both
>> > >> good
>> > >> and
>> > >> bad leadership. They are gone never to come back to power.
>> > >> Regardless
>> of
>> > >> how
>> > >> long the 2 will rule, their time of exit will also come and someone
>> else
>> > >> will come on.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Geoffrey Omollo
>> > >> <kidikibudi@outlook.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Pastor,
>> > >>
>> > >> Tell them to be like me. Ugali yangu ya sufuria bado ni lile lile.
>> > >> The
>> > >> day
>> > >> that changes, I will be screaming ICC to hell and back.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the
>> Year' in
>> > >> 2006
>> > >>
>> > >> ...As indicated on my Resume.
>> > >>
>> > >> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:41:30 -0600
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru
>> > >> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >> From: prbirai@gmail.com
>> > >> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Every single day, we have this or that opinion on the ICC. Each
>> > >> commentator
>> > >> feels like they know what exactly is going to happen. Why don't we
>> > >> all
>> > >> lie
>> > >> low and wait for the final verdict. Either way, Kenya will have to
>> move
>> > >> forward
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:33 AM, David ochwangi
>> > >> <dochwangi@yahoo.com
>> >
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Rev KM,
>> > >>
>> > >> This. Is the clearest admission that these cases are falling apart
>> faster
>> > >> than a castle on quick sand. We have always maintained that these
>> were a
>> > >> political witch~hunt and everyone can now see that they wouldn't
>> succeed,
>> > >> they may wanna milk it just for effects but from a practical
>> standpoint,
>> > >> this is over! CORD and the so called civil society need to find
>> something
>> > >> else to peg their hopes on or to keep them busy, the ICC is not it
>> > >> anymore.....
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> From:
>> > >>
>> > >> Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com>;
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> To:
>> > >>
>> > >> progressive-kenyans
>> > >> <progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>;
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Cc:
>> > >>
>> > >> uchunguzi online
>> > >> <uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com>; Africa-Oped
>> > >> <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; VVM Vuguvugu Mashinani
>> > >> <VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com>; WanaKenya
>> > >> <Wanakenya@googlegroups.com>;
>> > >> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>;
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Subject:
>> > >>
>> > >> UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> > >> Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sent:
>> > >>
>> > >> Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:24:37 PM
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Okil, Jexx and others:
>> > >> I think the devil you two mentioned is already out. Those Judges
>> > >> could
>> > >> article the article below to demand presence of the accused in
>> > >> court.
>> > >> Githu
>> > >> and others should have demanded for the articles to be amended so
>> > >> your
>> > >> worries cannot be dismissed.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> The good thing is that those who calls the tune and feed those
>> > >> Judges
>> and
>> > >> other ICC mouths seem genuine in preferring that the cases go on in
>> Hague
>> > >> without the presence of the accused. I strongly think those changes
>> would
>> > >> not have happened if Rao won! I mean if the two gnus didnt win so
>> their
>> > >> position and the diplomacy within AU has paid dividends to some
>> extent.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> What I am almost certain and wish it does not go through is the
>> nonsense
>> > >> of
>> > >> immunity for heads of states. This will be headed nowhere especially
>> > >> after
>> > >> the new amendments unless they think one can run away from justice
>> > >> by
>> > >> holding on to a presidency. They need to think of dictators who can
>> use
>> > >> such
>> > >> avenues as they also think of the monkey on their necks if the cases
>> were
>> > >> not solved.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> All in all, I dont see the judges applying the rules below and
>> demanding
>> > >> that the two be present in Hague. If the two fellows refuses to
>> > >> honor
>> the
>> > >> summons, they will have the support from outside Africa and such
>> > >> moves
>> > >> will
>> > >> be opposed by many from Whitehall to White House. I think the spirit
>> of
>> > >> the
>> > >> ASP was for striking a balance between victims and the need to run
>> > >> the
>> > >> country.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> As Okil said earlier, the ICC knuckleheads shoot themselves in eye
>> balls
>> > >> the
>> > >> moment they said there is nothing wrong with the suspects running
>> > >> for
>> > >> office. The two took it literary and really ran.
>> > >>
>> > >> Kuria
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/United-Kingdom-Uhuru-Kenyatta-William-Ruto-ICC/-/1064/2093088/-/138jf3d/-/index.html
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Still, these rules would not apply if judges choose to go with
>> > >> Article 63 of the Rome Statute. The relationship between the Rules
>> > >> of
>> > >> Procedure for Evidence and that of the Statute is similar to that of
>> the
>> > >> Constitution and an Act of Parliament; the Constitution remains
>> > >> supreme.
>> > >> Article 63 reads: "(I) The accused shall be
>> > >> present during the trial. (II) If the accused, being present before
>> the
>> > >> Court, continues to disrupt the trial, the Trial Chamber may remove
>> the
>> > >> accused and shall make provision for him or her to observe the trial
>> and
>> > >> instruct counsel from outside the courtroom, through the use of
>> > >> communications technology, if required. Such measures shall be taken
>> > >> only in exceptional circumstances after other reasonable
>> > >> alternatives
>> > >> have proved inadequate, and only for such duration as is strictly
>> > >> required."
>> > >> This article together with Article 27 of the
>> > >> Statute which says that the accused are taken in regardless of their
>> > >> standing in the society were not amended during the recent State
>> > >> Parties' conference. However, the Kenyan delegation led by Foreign
>> > >> Affairs Cabinet Secretary Amina Mohamed has indicated that they had
>> > >> issued a notice for special meeting in February next year to discuss
>> > >> amendments to these articles.
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> \
>> > >> Veritas liberabit vosThe truth Shall set you free
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.kuria-mwangi.blogspot.com
>> > >> http://www.facebook.com/kjmwangi
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
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>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> *************************************************************************************************
>> > >>
>> > >> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter Security
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