Monday 1 October 2012

Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal

The Tanzania that arose from partition of Africa in Berlin is not a simple landmass. The most important aspect of these "new countries" was and still is the livelihood and fundamental rights of the people that dwelt on the territory. The Heligoland Treaty did not alter in any significant way the livelihoods of the Gogo, the Masai, the Zaramo, the Hehe and the like. Most communities ability to carve a living from God's good earth remained uninterrupted except for a few cases on the margin, but even for them alternatives were plentiful. There was no community that found itself without land to farm, water to drink, biomass for energy or access to common waterways due to the Heligoland Treaty. It is in this line of reasoning I am saying that if a Treaty would have taken away the rights of the Wamanda from using the lake like their forefathers and mothers did for centuries before there was a Germany or UK, , hapangekalika. Hata Kaisari hangeweza kuenforce hiyo Treaty. I live on the border with Kenya and I can assure you even the rights to visitation and marry across the border for border communities were never significantly impinged - hadi leo.

I am not going to request the Malawians to give to us what has never been theirs under natural law. Tangu lini Wamanda walisema maji haya tunayotumia mababu zetu kuanzia leo tutaenda kuomba kibali kwa Wanyasa upande wa pili wa Ziwa kuyatumia?

Tuwaombe matumizi ya Ziwa, Wakikataa iweje? Think through this process and explore all possible outcomes.

mchilyi7.0

-----Original Message-----
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal

Thanks, Willy! I'm afraid the question is irrelevant here! If you  didn't have those treaties you wouldn't have Tanzania we have today  unless you prove to me it was created by us.    On 10/1/12, Willy Makundi <wrlmakundi@aol.com> wrote:  >  Question. What would have been your position today if the Germans and the  > English had signed a Treaty saying that your grandfather's grand grand child  > (your daughter) should not go to school?  >  >  >  > -----Original Message-----  > From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>  > To: wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>  > Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 11:26 am  > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal  >  >  > The lake under dispute belongs to God. Tanzania and Malawi claim the  > lake belongs to them - Tanzania: half of it and Malawi: the whole of  > the lake. At this point, there is no party, which is wrong or right.  > If we go by what treats say, the whole lake belongs to Malawi. We may  > want to use 'muscles' but they don't help in things that are clear. If  > we want, we can convince Malawi to give us half of the lake but just  > force doesn't change the treaties under discussion.  >  > On 10/1/12, Willy Makundi <wrlmakundi@aol.com> wrote:  >> Ndugu Matinyi, let Mr Banda and all Malawians know that the world did not  >> begin in 1890, neither is a Treaty between two robbers a definitive word  >> on  >> the rights of the robbed. Could anyone tell me how the life of the people  >> on  >> the eastern shore changed the day after Germany and United Kingdom signed  >> this treaty divvying up spheres of influence. Was there a single  >> fisherman  >> who stopped fishing or a swimmer who applied for a visa to take a dip in  >> the  >> lake?  >>  >> This treaty can NOT and SHOULD NOT bind owners of the rights to the lake  >> prior to the treaty, unless one shows me where the Wamandas, Nyakyusas,  >> Matengos, Wanyasa signed off their rights to their water, fish  and lake  >> resources. Lets not be ridiculous. Tanzania should make it very clear  >> that  >> the riparian rights of the people around lake Malawi/Nyasa have never  >> been  >> up for negotiation neither interrupted for a thousand years before Kaiser  >> and the King came up with the idea of sphere of influence - what ever  >> that  >> means. Sphere of influence za wazungu inahusianaje na mbasa za  >> Wanyakyusa?  >>  >> A Mmanda shall never ever need a visa to go fetch drinking water from a  >> Lake  >> whose main inlet for the northern waters is from rivers like Songwe  >> flowing  >> from Tanzania. The Malawians and the world should know that we will  >> defend  >> our riparian rights with whatever means necessary and that there shall  >> not  >> be a Malawian or their vessels that shall ever be safe once they cross  >> the  >> median line of the lake - unless and until our riparian rights to the  >> lake  >> are affirmed by Malawi and the international community. Period!  >>  >> Meanwhile we should prepare ourselves to defend the rights of our people  >> near Lake Malawi. I am not a war hawk but I surely will not give away  >> inalienable rights of my people because some King and a Kaiser signed  >> some  >> Treaty in the North Sea. I am an old man but for this cause, I will take  >> up  >> arms if Malawi and the world choose to be irresponsibly unreasonable.  >>  >> Tuache kumumunya maneno, haki zetu za ziwa hatukuwahi kuwapa Wajerumani  >> wala  >> Waingereza na kwa uhakika sio Wamalawi. Sio kiburi, sio ubabe, ni kuweka  >> wazi kosa la uchoraji ramani ambao haukutilia maanani haki za msingi za  >> wakazi. Hata tungekuwa wadogo kama Shelisheli hii haki tungeipigania hata  >> kwa miaka alfu. Ni Mungu tu anaweza kutunyima haki ya matumizi ya maji.  >>  >> Mchilyi7.0  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> -----Original Message-----  >> From: Mobhare Matinyi <matinyi@hotmail.com>  >> To: Wanabidii googlegroups <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>  >> Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 8:57 pm  >> Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal  >>  >>  >> Banda and your fellow supporters, and Malawians,  >>  >> It is foolish to ask London to comment on that issue because they are the  >> ones who messed up everything, not once, but many times.  >>  >> For your information, in the 1926 House of Commons hansards the British  >> secretary of colonies is recorded to have said: "I don't know where the  >> border is" - when he was asked to clarify on the issue. That was 1926.  >>  >> Again, in the 1950s when the British were redrawing the borders of the  >> Rhodesian Federation that would have included Malawi, Zambia and  >> Zimbabwe,  >> they got into debate over the same border and decided to trash the 1930s  >> map  >> in favor of the new map that placed the lake inside Malawi. Why did they  >> discuss the matter among themselves if the issue was clear?  >>  >> Here is another note: The facts as shown below regarding the British  >> mandate  >> over Tanganyika (given by the League of Nations) and the trusteeship  >> (given  >> by the UNO) are incorrect. Please refer to my earlier briefings on the  >> same  >> detail which can also be found in a few studies including a PhD  >> dissertation  >> by a Tanzanian which is still going on.  >>  >> Thank you.  >>  >> Matinyi.  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:46:21 -0400  >> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal  >> From: emuganda@gmail.com  >> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com  >>  >> Charles Banda,  >> It is not a question of oil and gas. If the whole lake belongs to Malawi  >> then Tanzania has no right to use the lake,  >> and fish in it.  >> em  >>  >>  >> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Charles Banda <chasbanda@gmail.com>  >> wrote:  >>  >> Tanzania already has oil & gas, it does not want poor Malawi to enjoy its  >> own cake.  >> Word that Iranian oil tankers are flying Tanzanian national flag  >> Politics and economy.										  >>  >>  >>  >> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Deogratias Kawonga  >> <deogratias.kawonga@gmail.com> wrote:  >>  >>  >> Matinyi,  >>  >>  >> Huyu Jamaa kaanza tena  >>  >>  >> Sent from my iPhone  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> On Sep 30, 2012, at 16:51, Charles Banda <chasbanda@gmail.com> wrote:  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>         As Malawi and Tanzania grapple with finding solutions to the Lake  >> Malawi boundary wrangle, Downing Street memos on the issue during the  >> Hastings Kamuzu Banda era we have seen build a strong case for Malawi.  >> The memos were written in the 1960s when the dispute first surfaced after  >> then Tanzanian president Julius Nyerere wrote London, complaining about  >> Banda's "expansionist" policy that was claiming the whole of Lake Malawi  >> when, according to Tanzania, it was supposed to be shared equally.  >> Archived communication we have seen from Number 10 Downing  >> Street—Britain's  >> Prime Minister's office in London—asserts that Tanzania cannot apply  >> international law to claim the lake.  >> "The present border between Malawi and Tanzania was first defined and  >> described in Anglo-German Agreement of July 1 1890, which established the  >> limits of the British and German spheres of influence in the area.  >> "By that agreement [and the Anglo-Portuguese Agreements of 1890-3], the  >> whole of Lake Nyasa was deemed as belonging to the British sphere of  >> influence and the border where it touched the lake, ran down the eastern  >> shoreline," reads a 1969 internal Downing Street background note  >> clarifying  >> the border issue.  >> But Tanzania's position, as outlined recently by president Jakaya  >> Kikwete,  >> is that the Anglo-German Treaty of 1890 that gave Malawi the sole  >> ownership  >> of Lake Malawi was flawed and Tanzania has every reason to demand this to  >> be  >> corrected.  >> Kikwete, in his August end-of-the-month address to his country, said the  >> Heligoland Treaty—the agreement between then colonial powers Germany and  >> Britain—denies Tanzanians living on the shores of Lake Malawi "their  >> given  >> right to utilise proximate water and marine resources to earn their daily  >> living".  >> Kikwete, according to a report in The Citizen newspaper of Tanzania  >> published on September 2 2012, argued that the colonial treaty set an  >> unfortunate precedent for Tanzanians yet, on the border between Malawi  >> and  >> Mozambique, boundaries were duly readjusted to give citizens of those  >> countries equal rights of access.  >> He said the treaty is erroneous because it contravenes international law  >> that requires States to share adjoining water resources.  >> The 1969 background note followed Nyerere's letter to British Prime  >> Minister  >> at the time, Harold Wilson, dated October 21 1968, in which he expressed  >> concern that Malawi's president Banda had announced on September 16 1968  >> that he was putting patrol vessels on Lake Malawi.  >> Nyerere had claimed in his letter that the press reported that Britain  >> was  >> supplying three gun boats for that purpose.  >> He said Banda had also put a vessel on the lake fitted out with arms for  >> him  >> by the Portuguese.  >> An internal letter to a superior by a Downing Street official, a Mr.  >> Waitland, attached to the background note, said:  >> "With reference to your letter to David Erighty of October 15, I enclose  >> a  >> redraft of the reply to President Nyerere's letter to the Prime Minister  >> of  >> September 24 about the border dispute between Malawi and Tanzania."  >> The letter made two landmark conclusions, the first one being:  >> "It is doubtful whether Tanzania's assertion—as expressed in paragraph 4  >> [four] of Nyerere's letter to the Prime Minister…that the boundary  >> between  >> the two countries is in the centre of Lake Malawi—could be sustained in  >> law,  >> since the principles of international law, to which Nyerere appeals,  >> could  >> hardly be applied, whereas in the Anglo-German Agreement of 1890 about  >> this  >> particular boundary, one of the riparian States concerned has agreed with  >> the other that the lake lay outside its boundaries," reads the letter.  >> This position notwithstanding, the memo points out that it might be  >> argued  >> that the definitions of the agreement of 1890 are in terms of "spheres of  >> influence and that these may not necessarily entail definitive  >> territorial  >> boundaries."  >> The second conclusion was "that the Tanzanians would have a stronger case  >> for a redefinition of the boundary if they had based this on grounds not  >> of  >> international law, but of equity."  >> The communication we have seen further shows that the 1890 Anglo-German  >> Agreement was maintained when the Protectorate of Nyasaland districts was  >> formed in 1891 and also in 1893 when the protectorate was renamed British  >> Central Africa and in 1907 when it was renamed again as the Nyasaland  >> Protectorate.  >> According to the communication, when the British role was established in  >> German East Africa and renamed Tanganyika after the treaty of Versailles  >> in  >> 1918, under mandate from the League of Nations, Tanganyika's border on  >> Lake  >> Nyasa on the eastern shoreline continued to be of the former German  >> colony.  >> "This continued to be the case when the British mandate over Tanganyika  >> was  >> continued in the form of a United Nations Trusteeship," reads the  >> communication.  >> In the documents, Britain also highlighted sources of confusion over  >> lake's  >> boundary.  >> "All the above territorial definitions rest on the terms of the  >> Anglo-German  >> Agreement of 1890, since subsequent Orders in Council, etc. have tended  >> to  >> describe the territories as "bounded by German East Africa" [for Malawi]  >> and  >> the "Nyasaland Protectorate" [for Tanzania]," says the communication.  >> It adds that further confusion arises out of German and British maps of  >> the  >> area which are inconsistent.  >> "The German maps of 1904 and 1913 show the boundary running along the  >> eastern shore of the lake, but one of 1918 shows it as being the median  >> of  >> the lake. The Colonial Office Map Supplement of 1948 gives the border on  >> the  >> shoreline for its map of Nyasaland, and the middle of the lake for its  >> Tanganyikan counterpart," reads the communication.  >> The most blatant error, according to the communication, is contained in  >> the  >> map included in the White Paper issued in 1953 on the conference on the  >> Federation of Southern Rhodesia, Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland, which  >> shows the border running down the median of Lake Nyasa between Nyasaland  >> and  >> Tanganyika.  >> The Malawi-Tanzania border resurfaced this year following Capital Hill's  >> licensing of a firm to explore oil on Lake Malawi.  >> Tanzania now wants a chunk of the water body, which led to  >> negotiations—first in Tanzania then in Malawi last month. The talks were  >> inconclusive.  >> Malawi now wants to take the matter to the UN International Court of  >> Justice  >> after the talks in Mzuzu last month failed to resolve the matter,  >> according  >> to Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation Minister Ephraim Chiume.  >> But Chancellor College international law expert, Dr. Mwiza Nkhata, said  >> in  >> an interview soon after the talks that the world court would not  >> automatically decide on the matter because Tanzania did not give  >> compulsory  >> jurisdiction to the court on interpretation of treaties and questions on  >> international law.  >> On the Tanzania side, the Mzuzu talks were led by Chiume's counterpart,  >> Bernard Membe. That meeting resolved that they should try diplomacy to  >> end  >> the wrangle and that the Attorney Generals of the two countries should  >> interpret Article 1 (2) (IV) of the Anglo-Germany Treaty.  >> The two countries were expected to meet in Tanzania this month for more  >> talks.  >> But on Thursday this week, Information Minister Moses Kunkuyu said the  >> meeting the two countries were scheduled to have this September have not  >> yet  >> taken place.  >> Kunkuyu said there is no latest development on the mater.  >> He supported the memo's content, saying it has been Capital Hill's  >> conviction that the whole lake belongs to Malawi.  >> http://www.malawitoday.com/news/126723-lake-belongs-malawi-uk-letters-reveal  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> --  >> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  >> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  >> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >>  >> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  >> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  >> ukishatuma  >>  >> Disclaimer:  >> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any  >> legal  >> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must  >> be  >> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree  >> to  >> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> --  >> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  >> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  >> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >>  >> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  >> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  >> ukishatuma  >>  >> Disclaimer:  >> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any  >> legal  >> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must  >> be  >> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree  >> to  >> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> --  >> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  >> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  >> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >>  >> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  >> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  >> ukishatuma  >>  >> Disclaimer:  >> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any  >> legal  >> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must  >> be  >> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree  >> to  >> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> --  >> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  >> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  >> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >>  >> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  >> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  >> ukishatuma  >>  >> Disclaimer:  >> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any  >> legal  >> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must  >> be  >> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree  >> to  >> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >>  >>  >>  >>  		 	   		  >>  >> --  >> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  >> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  >> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >>  >> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  >> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  >> ukishatuma  >>  >> Disclaimer:  >> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any  >> legal  >> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must  >> be  >> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree  >> to  >> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >>  >>  >>  >>  >>  >> --  >> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  >> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  >> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >>  >> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  >> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  >> ukishatuma  >>  >> Disclaimer:  >> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any  >> legal  >> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must  >> be  >> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree  >> to  >> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >>  >>  >>  >  > --  > Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  > Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  > Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >  > Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  > wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  > ukishatuma  >  > Disclaimer:  > Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal  > consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be  >  > presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to  >  > this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >  >  >  >  >  > --  > Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  > Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  > Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com  >  > Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda  > wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha  > ukishatuma  >  > Disclaimer:  > Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal  > consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be  > presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to  > this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.  >  >  >    --   Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com  Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com  Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com    Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda   wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma    Disclaimer:  Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal   consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be   presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to   this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.      

--
Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
 
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
 
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
 
 

0 comments:

Post a Comment