Saturday 4 August 2012

Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute

Tanzania ilitakiwa kuliwasilisha suala hili kwenye jumuiya ya kimataifa kuliko kudanganya kuwa inachukua hatua zingine ambazo sanasana zitailetea matatizo Tanzania .


On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:24 PM, matinyi@hotmail.com <matinyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
Unamaanisha nini?

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----- Reply message -----
From: kimdr53@gmail.com
To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Date: Sat, Aug 4, 2012 10:47 am


Oh Christian if that is true of what you are saying, that is pathetic at best and obnoxious at worst! I would not imagine that we Africans at this point in time in the 21st Century we can still allow our so called friends to manipulate us! I tend to think the opposite, that the so called Developed countries will actually do the best to conduct mediation for both countries in the name of mutual interest and mutual benefits! Let us hope that as Hirally Clinton is visiting Malawi she will take the chance to discuss the matter.
 Idriss Mussa
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Orange Botswana

-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Nicholas <kristian_nick@yahoo.com>
Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 07:16:35
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com<wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute

Brothers and sisters,Tanzania is the most democratic country when it comes to international affairs,not because we are not experts in negotiations but is due to the fact that,we are not exposed much to international conflicts,as it has been the case to our neighbours. I remember the last time we did fight with uganda was 1978 or so and won the idd amin since then no war exercises so Malawi take advantage of our silence to manipulate our Lake by naming it LAKE MALAWI ON THEIR SIDE and of course the border,from what i know malawi is not alone there are those who make fool of her by providing military assistances and other HUMANITARIAN AND ECONOMIC AIDS and remember TODAY MALAWI IS THE GAY MARRIAGE FREE COUNTRY IN AFRICA,SO THOSE WHO PERMITTED GAY ACTIVITIES IN MALAWI ARE WHO ARE BEHIND ALL THESE BORDER AND LAKE NYASA ISSUES.


From: Yona Maro <oldmoshi@gmail.com>
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute

Nakubaliana na wazo la nchi hizi mbili kuwa na Shirika au kampuni moja ya kuendesha shuguli za ziwa nyasa pamoja kama ilivyo kwa Shirika la kuendesha ziwa victoria , mtoa nile na mekong kule bara asia , kwa kufanya hivi  tutaweza kuepusha mengi sana .cise

Suala la vita litaitesa zaidi Tanzania na majirani zake wengine , kulingana na Taarifa ya hali ya usalama afrika mashariki haswa nchini Tanzania kuanzia mwaka 2015 na kuendelea kuna baadhi ya maeneo yanaweza ambayo ni sehemu ya jamhuri ya muungano wa Tanzania yanaweza kujiondoa kwenye jamhuri hii na mengine ya nchi nyingine kujiunga kutokana na jamii za wanaoishi maeneo hayo , sitaki kuyasema hapa ila tuchunge  sasa hivi la malawi kwa mfano Tanzania iamue moja kama ni vita ijue kuna uwezekano wa kupoteza maeneo mengi zaidi .
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Hosea Ndaki <hosea.ndaki@gmail.com> wrote:
Kabla ya kufikiria kupigana na malawi kwa nini tusifikirie kupigana na wezi wa gas na dhahabu yetu, walioingia mikataba ya kinyonyaji na mafisadi. Tumeshaambiwa waswahili sita wana bil 300 uswisi situanze na hao kwanza?
>On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Azaveli Lwaitama <kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I agree with you entirely Idriss Mussa. No to war over oil and gas. Yes to negotiations to ensure that our  African people who have lived near the lake for centuries continue using the lake in peace without being messed around by colonial borders and the post-colonial soldiers the colonialists left behind ...Let Malawi and Tanzania form a joint state corporation to partner with multinationals to exploit the oil and gas from the lake for mutual equal benefit...Fighting will benefit no one but the multinationals. I agree with you entirely Idriss Mussa!!!Mwl Lwaitama  
>>Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary DisputeTo: wanabidii@googlegroups.comFrom: kimdr53@gmail.comDate: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 07:15:39 +0000Oh it is very interesting that this issue has given us a forum to air our views! Honestly a war between our two beloved countries will lead us into more poverty than we are now! Let us not be myoapic in this discussion and we urge our leaders in both countries not to be. The long term consequences for our sister countries are catastrophic. The war between us and Iddi Amin is still lingering in our mind. Let the local bodies e.g. SADC and or International bodies e.g. AU, UNO play a bigger role to bring both country leaders on a table and talk sense. The colonial map of the 19th Century was made in the interest of the masters and not for the citizens. Hence both countries should not fall in a trap. The British had their own interests when they made that map, by then Tanganyika was a German colony while
Nyasaland a British one. This was a rivally between the two coming from Europe and bringing it to poor innocent Africans who had lived as sisters and brothers for centuries.Now they are coming again wanting our natural resources OIL for that matter, a curse in our many African countries e.g. Angola, Nigeria, Libya, Guinne etc. They come and operate with impunity and the poor African is left with nothing but a few Dollars for some unpatriotic leaders who are bent to do anything and make sure the natural resources are mined or drained. Now let us talk sense please for God sake let the war mongers and drum bitters put this to a halt and let some kind of sense prevail. Our leaders should take the right action for the right path. Believe me VITA YA PANZI FURAHA YA KUNGURU and the so called good samaritans will cherish that!! Look at Libya, and now Syria and many more in the Middle East is this they you want us to go? Please give us a break no Geo-politics
should be allowed to spread again in Africa and not in SADC countries for that matter. This issue should be handled very carefully and given the attention it deserves at the HIGHEST OFFICE of our sister countries! NO manga manga, we want to see a seriousness in our leaders!!NKOSI SIKELELA AFRIKAMAY GOD BLESS AFRICA Idriss Mussa
>>Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Orange Botswana
>>From: weston mbuba <matutetz@yahoo.com>
>>Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 22:55:10 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>ReplyTo: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Mwalimu,
>>There are issues that needs politics in dealing with. But there are those issues which requires stern actions.  --- On Fri, 8/3/12, Azaveli Lwaitama <kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>From: Azaveli Lwaitama <kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com>
>>>Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
>>>To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 4:11 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>The govt of the day in Tanzania would love to have  the people rally behind it  if there was a fight with Malawi  now and it might actually use the war situation to further stifle opposition  to it internally. Think about it my friend!!!Mwl. Lwaitama 
>>>> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 01:21:20 +0300> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute> From: nanyaro04@gmail.com> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com> > Mwalimu Lwaitama> I agree with your points,but why should we ask for our right?we have> to fight for our people,and we should take this matter as a "matter of> grieve concern"> > On 8/4/12, Azaveli Lwaitama <kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com> wrote:> >> > Nanyaro and Matinyi,> > Please don't disappoint me by making me believe that you too can fall for> > these Machiavellian tricks. The leadership in Malawi and Tanzania is in the> > pocket of Western powers, especially the USA. The companies that are setting> > the two nations at each other's throats are Western oil and gas companies.> > The leadership in both countries would love to have a violent border> > dispute to create a diversion from internal political difficulties. The> > Western powers would love to have these two imperialist
lackeys scrambling> > to buy weapons from western powers and the leadership will benefit if the> > war allows them to justify keeping their military top brass happy with> > more money being thrown at the defense forces , though hardly benefiting the> > rank and file soldiers. Let there a media campaign to force both countries> > to respect the implications of having had their countries ratify " the 1982> > UN Convention on Law of the Sea that stipulates that in case nations are> > bordered by a water body (sea or lake), the border of the two nations will> > always be on the middle of the water body." Let money be made available to> > raise teachers' and medical personnel's salaries in the public sector than> > on buying weapons and preparing for killing each other's poverty-stricken> > people.> >> > The leadership in both countries must be made to desist from fueling tension> > and hatred between the brotherly and sisterly peoples of Malawi and
Tanzania> > ..They all must be forced by public pressure to accept the only sensible> > 20th century solution to the territorial dispute... adhering to the terms of> > the " the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that stipulates that in case> > nations are bordered by a water body (sea or lake), the border of the two> > nations will always be on the middle of the water body." We should NOT> > encourage our already power intoxicated and arrogant political leaders to> > beat war drums and adopt an hypocritical national jingoistic stance to> > hide their singular lack of patriotism in managing our natural resources,> > such as minerals including gas and oil... How can one fight a war> > successfully when ones' teachers and doctors have been drive into despair> > and are indeed on a warpath with the governmen. When Nyerere led the war> > against Iddi Amin the national was relatively united behind a national> > hero, Mwalimu Nyerere, whose integrity was
impeccable. War under the> > leadership of an unethical assortment of self-seeking primitive accumulation> > Machiavellian dilettante would be a disaster!> > Mwl. Lwaitama> >> >> >> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 00:05:05 +0300> >> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute> >> From: nanyaro04@gmail.com> >> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com> >>> >> We should beat Malawi,for our nation,we can not let them the whole> >> Lake just because of the expenses of war.> >> We have reason to beat them,let it be now.> >>> >> On 8/3/12, Mobhare Matinyi <matinyi@hotmail.com> wrote:> >> >> >> > Mwalimu Lwaitama,> >> > Shikamoo!> >> > As you know:> >> > 1. When Ben was in power, he talked endlessly with Muluzi.> >> > 2. Then Mutharika came and his arrogance never spared us but at least> >> > we> >> > didn't hear a lot of nonsense. Again the talks were endless.> >> > 3. Now the confused lady is there, and they want to put it in black and> >> > white....that
the lake is theirs...........in fact we are the ones> >> > begging> >> > for talks.> >> > Let us continue to talk and see what happens.> >> > I once talked Malawians here in Washington, and what I heard was> >> > impossible> >> > to believe.> >> > My prediction is: Talks will never solve this problem - either we give> >> > up or> >> > beat them up.> >> > Inviting international judgement may not help as has been the case in> >> > many> >> > countries. International judgment needs leaders who respect it but I> >> > don't> >> > think Malawians are ready for that. They want the whole lake.> >> > Matinyi.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From: kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com> >> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com> >> > Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute> >> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:10:55 +0000> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > It will be silly for Tanzania and Malawi to go to war over this border> >> > dispute...Both Malawi and
Tanzania are signatories of "Both were put> >> > together by> >> > British and German colonialists and therefore owe their existence in> >> > territorial terms to colonial treaties such as the Helligoland Treaty> >> > of> >> > 1890. Even if foreign companies have told each of them that there is oil> >> > in> >> > the middle or on the shore of the the lake that divides them, they> >> > should> >> > sit down and agree on a formular that spares their poverty-stricken> >> > people> >> > from a senseless war that will see all the oil revenues from either of> >> > them> >> > go to buying weapons to kill each other.. I see the USA's Madam Clinton> >> > is> >> > visiting Malawi on Sunday, let her not encourage either of us to be big> >> > headed ...I have a grandson who has dual Malawi and Tanzanian> >> > nationality> >> > till he reaches 18 years and it will be absurd to tell this 8 year-old> >> > Malawian-Tanzanian that the two sister countries are at war with

each> >> > other> >> > over who owns a lake that divides them! Let the two countries sit down> >> > and> >> > talk seriously, not like the way the Govt of Tanzania talked with> >> > doctors> >> > and teachers, but seriously, without pre-conditions and with the> >> > interests> >> > of our two peoples at heart, especially those who live near the lake,> >> > whther> >> > we call it Lake Nyasa or Lake Malawi! In the end we need to hurry up> >> > and> >> > join our two countries, through SADC initiatives, into one country!> >> > Mwl. Lwaitama> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 19:40:17 +0300> >> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute> >> > From: hifadhi@gmail.com> >> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com> >> >> >> >> >> > Those that are advocating for war do not know what they are talking> >> > about.> >> > Both Tanzania and Malawi have good points to make. Both countris have> >> > genuine reasons
to claim what they currently claim. It's a question of> >> > advising them wisely so they may conclude their discussions ammicably> >> > and> >> > peacefully. The source of the border despute between the two nations> >> > have> >> > nothing to do with Malawi or Tanzania. It is purely one of the> >> > Mzungu-made> >> > desputes. Malawi's argument is based on an agreement of 1890 between> >> > former> >> > colonial powers that stipulates the border between the two countries as> >> > lying along the Tanzanian shore of the lake. On the other hand,> >> > Tanzania's> >> > argument is based on the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that> >> > stipulates that in case nations are bordered by a water body (sea or> >> > lake),> >> > the border of the two nations will always be on the middle of the water> >> > body.> >> > Going by these two international conventions, one would argue that both> >> > nations have genuine reasons to claim what they currently
claim and it> >> > is> >> > only peaceful negotiations that will help the two countries to arrive at> >> > a> >> > meaningful decision.> >> > Above all, both Tanzania and Malawi are poor nations and none can claim> >> > to> >> > have any military might than the other. In view of this, war between the> >> > two> >> > friendly neighbours will only exacerbate poverty between the two nations> >> > as> >> > both of them will channel a good chunk of their meagre revenues to> >> > purchasing useless weapons at the expense of investment in social> >> > services.> >> > Again, the winner here will be the Mzungu who manufactures and sells> >> > these> >> > weapons.> >> > In the same vein, if oil resources were anything to bring a lasting> >> > economic> >> > prosperity, then the Nigeria's Niger Delta wouldn't have been one of> >> > the> >> > poorest places on earth. Why? Because oil is not drilled for the good> >> > of> >> > Africa. It is meant to enrich a
Mzungu somewhere in one of the> >> > first-world> >> > countries. Inquire from Malawian authorities and you will understand> >> > how> >> > much will the country be getting when oil is finally found and compare> >> > this> >> > with what the Mzungu who is exploring for oil will be going home with.> >> > You> >> > should definately laugh at the Bare Bone that Malawi will be receiving> >> > and> >> > thus you will regard yourself as a foolish fellow if you were one of> >> > those> >> > advocating for war.> >> > In short therefore, the Mzungu will be happy that he has found a ready> >> > market for weapons. He will also be very happy that the fight between> >> > Malawi> >> > and Tanzania, over a bare bone, means that neither Malawi nor Tanzania> >> > will> >> > be in the watch out for who is stealing oil from the desputed lake and> >> > therefore, every drop of the oil will go to Europe unquestioned.> >> > Tanzania also gives another good example of how
Africa's resources are> >> > swindled. The country is the third largest producer of gold in Africa> >> > after> >> > South Africa and Ghana but Tanzania gets less than 10% of gold> >> > revenues.> >> > Besides, both nations have something to depend from one another. In the> >> > present-day Malawi, Kiswahili is almost their third language, thanks to> >> > the> >> > increasing number of Swahili/Taifa (Tanzanian) traders in Mzuzu,> >> > Lilongwe,> >> > Blantyre, Nkhata-Bay etc. I'm told the number of Tanzanians living in> >> > Malawi> >> > (legally and illegally) goes beyond 100,000 and a number of them have> >> > crossed the same lake and are engaging in fishing even in rural areas> >> > of> >> > Malawi. On the other hand, Tanzania is home to thousands of Malawians> >> > who> >> > work as garden boys, watchmen and a number of other low-profile jobs in> >> > Dar> >> > es Salaam and Mbeya among others. These low-profile jobs are however> >> > paying>
>> > to them and they end up building houses in Mzuzu, Lilongwwe, Chintheche> >> > etc.> >> > A war between the two nations will destabilize lives for these people.> >> > In most cases, the war between two African nations translates into a> >> > war> >> > between two first-world countries who have vested interests in the> >> > warring> >> > nations and thus, no one should make a mistake of thinking that Malawi> >> > will> >> > be an easy ride for Tanzania or Tanzania will be an easy ride for> >> > Malawi.> >> > May God Bless Africa!> >> > http://www.nyasatimes.com/malawi/2012/08/03/dispute-on-lake-malawi-tanzania-says-ready-for-any-provocation/?cp=all#comments> >> >> >> >> >> > The Tanzania have a problem with Anglo German treaty which demarcated> >> > the> >> > border between the then Nyasaland and Tanganyika yet the same treaty> >> > demarcated the border of Tanganyika and Kenya, why have they not made a> >> > claim with the Kenyans with regard to
some territory, after all a huge> >> > number of animals from the Serengeti migrate to Kenya to feed on> >> > pasture> >> > lands, they can claim those pasture lands existing on the Kenyans side> >> > of> >> > the border.> >> > To heil this man in picture.> >> > Talking of provocation,who is provoking who between Malawi and Tanzania> >> > if I> >> > may ask?.> >> > I thought it was Tanzania that brought up this issue in the first> >> > place,so> >> > if anything it should be Malawi talking of being provoked and not> >> > Tanzania> >> > for God's sake.> >> > Tanzania can not produce any tangible evidence to substantiate her> >> > empty> >> > allegations that her people have been or will be harrassed in any way> >> > along> >> > the lake shores if Malawi goes ahaed with her petroleum exprolation> >> > exercise.> >> > Tanzanians and Malawians living along the shores of Lake Malawi have> >> > always> >> > enjoyed the benefits that this lake brings to them
in a spirit of> >> > neighbourhood without any problems and it is shocking to note that> >> > Tanzania> >> > is bent on wrecking that long-lasting sound relationship simply because> >> > of> >> > GREED.> >> > Tanzanians should be reminded that Malawians are not ready to bow down> >> > to> >> > their pressure,NO,that is not going to happen because the exercise is> >> > happening within Malawi's territory.The petroleum exprolation exercise> >> > will> >> > continue!!> >> > http://www.nyasatimes.com/malawi/2012/08/03/dispute-on-lake-malawi-tanzania-says-ready-for-any-provocation/?cp=all#comments> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > 2012/8/3 ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I remember in one of the speeches Mwalimu Nyerere saying so during Iddi> >> > Amin> >> > days. He said whenever Amin run in to touble he would say Tanzania have> >> > invaded Uganda. I can imagine to be a highest level of frastration from> >> > internal
problems. Are we already there? I think NO.> >> >> >> > --- On Fri, 8/3/12, Peter Lwegasira <petermakatu@yahoo.com> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > From: Peter Lwegasira <petermakatu@yahoo.com>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute> >> > To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>> >> > Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 7:11 AM> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I was talking to a friend regarding this but instead of listening to be> >> > he> >> > commented like this: "I guess this might be one of those schemes to> >> > externalize our internal problems". What a guess??!! May be.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From: Hildegarda Kiwasila <khildegarda@yahoo.co.uk>> >> > To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>> >> > Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 2:01 PM> >> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
Ugomvi huu sio mara ya kwanza, huko nyuma ulizuka tena waliipata. Hata> >> > hivyo, tafiti zimefanywa huko na zinaonyesha jinsi gani maji na mito> >> > iingiayo ziwani inapofurika na kupinda katika maeneo karibu na ziwa> >> > yanavyofanya mara upande huu uko ndani ya Nyasa-Malawi mara wakati huu> >> > wako> >> > Tanzania.Bila ya Shaka Rais Mama aliyepo atasaidia kuzuia vita ya> >> > kugombania> >> > mpaka isije kuwa kama ile ya Idd Amin. sasa hizo ndege zirukazo kwetu> >> > tukizitungua itakuwaje?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From: Rehema Kikwete <rehemaki@gmail.com>> >> > To: Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>> >> > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 13:35> >> > Subject: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute> >> >> >> > " wananchi wa Mikoa ya Mbeya,Iringa na Ruvuma wasiwe na wasiwasi kwani> >> > Tanzania iko tayari kupambana na uchokozi wowote ule kutoka kwa> >> > Malawi" Samwel Sitta> >> >> >> > On Aug 3, 12:42 pm, Sankey
Mbillah <acck...@gmail.com> wrote:> >> >> Haya watanzania kazi kwetu tutaj

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