Frank, maelezo yako yana contradictions nyingi.
1. Kwanza tukubaliane. Umesema hapo juu kwamba unaamini tu kilicho kwenye biblia na nje ya hapo siyo.On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 9:47 AM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--Arbo, Joseph Ludovic & Teleshor Magobe,Catholic Literature Needed, and Still Needs, Renovating! Forgery in All DepartmentsCatholic Tradition!SPEAKING OF the fifteenth century, Catholic Encyclopedia says: "There was need of a revision which is not yet complete, ranging over all that had been handed down from the Middle Ages under the style and title of the Fathers, the Councils, the Roman and other official archives. In all these departments, forgery and interpolation as well as ignorance had wrought mischief on a great scale" (XII, 768).False Decretals of IsadoreWE HAVE now come to, perhaps the most notorious of all Catholic forgeries. The seventh and eighth centuries are spoken of as "an extremely uncritical period" (Cath. Ency., I, 610), and the ninth century is described as "an age of great ignorance" (Cath. Dic., 105), in fact, the whole Middle Ages are said to have had a "distorted and legendary view of ecclesiastical antiquity" (Cath. Ency., V, 779). The sixth century was so grossly ignorant that the emperor could not read and write (General History of the Catholic Church, Darras, II, 97).Forged To Beat Down "Opposition"THIS ELABORATE code, now called the False Decretals of Isadore, was simply a re-working of all the forgeries that had gone before in order to bring them up to date. It is filled with names of popes and others from former centuries, with their supposed decrees, also the supposed canons of synods and councils. It was the most elaborate and pretentious code that had come into being up to this time. Let us note this statement from Catholic Dictionary: "In an age of great ignorance, when criticism was neither in favor nor provided with means, it is not wonderful that this collection which invested with the spurious authority of recorded decisions a system of things existing traditionally indeed, but liable to constant opposition, passed speedily into general recognition and acceptance. Six centuries passed before it was discovered that the 'Pseudo-Isadorean, or False Decretals,' as they are now called, were to a great extent a forgery" (Catholic Dictionary, 105).Forged To Exalt the BishopCONCERNING THE purpose of the forger, we read: "So we are driven to conclude that he had a very special object in view in composing this partial code. How are we to discover what his object was? Evidently, by examining the documents [that] he forged. There, if at all, are to be found his dominant ideas. And such an examination is by no means difficult after what we have just said concerning the legal side of the False Decretals. Isadore's object is so clearly defined that it requires no very labored analysis to discover it. HIS CHIEF AIM IS TO ASSURE THE DIGNITY AND FRUITFULNESS OF THE EPISCOPAL OFFICE. In his view, the diocese is the life-giving centre of the whole ecclesiastical organism, and the vitality of this centre is his chief concern. All his legislation has the same object" (Cath. Ency., V, 777).We see at this time that the Papacy was only developing. Augustine in his Commentary on the New Code of Canon Law thinks that "Isadore" was providing for a particular bishop—the bishop of Rome—for he speaks thus concerning the purpose: "Purpose of the compiler...to secure the authority of the Roman Pontiff over particular synods, and to defend the hierarchy in all its degrees" (I, 25).
From: Arbo <akihaule@gmail.com>
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Cc: materufrank@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Frank you need to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church in its entirety, to learn and understand her teaching. How she derives her doctrines and liturgies. After that , return and let's discuss based on what you read.--I will attach here the document , just in case.
On Friday, 26 December 2014 06:10:05 UTC+1, Frank Materu wrote:Joseph Ludovick,"AND HISTORY shows only too plainly that the Church, in their sense of the term, has VARIED IN ITS DOCTRINE, taught dogmas at various times and at various places at the same time inconsistent with each other; and therefore to a considerable extent [is] erroneous" (Plain Facts, 34),Catholicism Assimilates Paganism"CHURCH ASSIMILATES and sanctifies Roman Civilization—from its foundations, the Church had gradually absorbed the best of the life, the organization, the institutions, the laws, the learning and whatever else of good and worth there was in the Roman Empire. What the Church thus took to herself, she transformed and sanctified so that, though Roman in its source, it was Christian in its form, influence, and tendencies.To the treasure of ancient civilization, the Church joined the great and luminous truths of God's revelation. Thus, doubly armed with the great legislative and intellectual acquirements of antiquity and the practical and saintly precepts of Christianity, the Church began to build up from Teutonic [Germanic etc.] and Roman elements the most perfect nations, and the grandest civilization that the world has ever known. So numerous were the difficulties of this formidable task that any other institution save God's Church must have lost courage and despaired." (History of the Church of God, B. J. Spalding, 379).It is easy to see that an institution modeled after the Roman Empire in its laws and governmental machinery, and which is a crazy-quilt patchwork of paganism in its doctrine and beliefs, would have little use for the Bible!
From: Joseph Ludovick <josephl...@gmail.com>
To: wana...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2014 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Materu
You take reguge to spelling errors?. Just do so. But.I will never seize to tell you the truth. Many of what you advance seem to be sterming from Ignorance.
A blind teacher will lead his disciples into destruction. Continue in your ways. False prophets then and now.--On Dec 25, 2014 7:19 PM, "'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:--Nzela,Stop your judgmental hysteria. You need to repent of your absolute lack of sensitivity to the call of God for this generation to repent of their evil actions.Frank.
From: 'ngwananzela' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2014 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
--Frank,Your useless to your argument, no body you will turn him/her around.Nzela.Sent from Samsung Mobile-------- Original message --------From: 'frank patrick materu' via WanabidiiDate:25/12/2014 13:57 (GMT+03:00)Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?Telesphor & Company,"Bwana asemahivi, Msijifunze njia za mataifa, wala msishangae kwa sababu ya ishara zambinguni; maana mataifa hushangaa kwa sababu ya ishara hizo. [Yeremia 10:2].
The LORD reminds us today to becareful not to become involved with and participate in the customs andtraditions of the world that are pagan, false and idolatrous.
X-MAS TREE FOR EXAMPLE:
The cutting down of trees and decorating them to 'so-call' honor The LORD (?).
In Jeremiah 10:3-5, we read the following, "For the customs of the peopleare vain: for it is but a tree which one cutteth out of the forest, the work ofthe hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold;they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not, ... neither ...is it in them to do good."
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE:
There is no evidence in The Holy Bible that Christmas is to be celebrated, infact, The Apostles, the disciples, the first true believers and even for thenext three centuries we find absolutely no record anywhere that anyone spokeabout or observed what we know today as 'Christmas'.
SO, HOW DID ALL THIS GET STARTED?
Before the birth of The Messiah, Y'shua our LORD, The Romans had a pagan feastcalled 'saturnalia' that was observed during the early part of winter, what wenow call 'December', and its heathen feast and practices fell towards the endof the month.
As a result of Roman Catholicism connecting church and state around the year 313A.D., the secular and religious became in many instances one issue. It is fromthis point in history that we begin to witness many pagan and lurid rituals andactivities that became lot and parcel of 'so-called' Christianity.
POPE GREGORY THE FIRST:
Pope Gregory The First around 600 A.D., specifically instructed Augustine, theArchbishop of Cantebury, to adapt existing local religious (pagan or otherwise)customs and practices to Christian usage in order to help propagate the faith.
Thus, the state church endeavored to amalgamate, the old with the new, and as aresult, a 'strange fire' became evident within Christianity that remains eventoday as a smell of awfulness in the sight of The Almighty GOD.
Just think, instead of bringing gifts to The LORD like the wise men did longago, many in selfishness receive, and receive from one another.
HOW ABOUT THE TREE?
How about the tree? Some individuals will traditionally go into deep debt notonly to decorate such an idol, but also, all the other things that revolvearound the Christmas celebration that brings no honor and glory to The Son ofGOD.
Haven't you sensed something in your spirit telling you year after year thatyour adoration of and involvement with: the tree, Santa (deception) Claus,rudolph, debts, gifts, who outgives who, stories and songs 'about Christmas'that have nothing to do with the advent of Y'shua (Jesus) is wrong? Haven't yousensed something terribly wrong?
DON'T YOU WANT TO DO WHAT OUR LORD DID?
Y'shua (Jesus) celebrated The Feast of Dedication (Chanukkah) as recorded inJohn 10:22-30, furthermore, Our LORD never celebrated what today is referred toas The merry, merry holiday of x-mas, also known as Christmas.
HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT ?
Have you ever thought about the name of this holiday -- "Christ -Mass" --, which associates the Christ (the Messiah) with a man-madeservice that (for all intentions) has no Jewish sentiment, called the Mass?This of course is an invention of a major religious order that has its roots inJudaism, and yet has for these many centuries completely separated itself fromanything remotely considered 'Jewish'. In this century, this has beenespecially true regarding the Vatican's position towards the Land of Israel.Roman Catholicism today does recognize Israel, but the question is...to whatextent? It is this religious entity that authored what we know today asChristmas. In a world of complexities and religious misgivings, it's a terribleshame that true believers in Y'shua (Jesus) throughout these many centurieshave been drawn into this awful celebration of tinsel and a old bearded mandeclaring that he has a 'gift' for you.
It is high time to wake up out of this sleep and stupor that has plagued thosewho profess faith in the Living GOD, The only True Light for this dying world,and His Name is, Y'shua (Jesus) The Son of GOD.
YES, Y'SHUA (JESUS) WAS BORN!
Yes, Y'shua (Jesus) was born in Bethlehem of Judea nearly two-thousand yearsago for one and only one purpose and reason, and that is, to become our mediatorbetween GOD and man, and not as some espouse, that Mary, or the Pope, or arabbi, or a minister can take his place or even intercede before GOD for us.Only Y'shua (Jesus) is Our LORD.
It is only through The Birth, Life, Death, Burial and Resurrection of Our LORDand Saviour Y'shua (Jesus) that anyone can have access into The Kingdom of GOD.
AS A CHILD OF GOD!
As a child of GOD, are you willing to put aside idols? Like the tree, santa,rudolph, debts, traditions, customs, paganistic and heathenistic issues thatrevolve around Christmas and its commercialism with all of its trappings?Source:http://www. shalom-peace.com/ischris.html
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2014 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
1. Victor, utachingiaje tena wakati huna cha kuchangia maana unarudiarudia yaleyale na hakuna jipya. In fact, ulikuwa umeshachelewa kuchua hatua.
2. Paul, kwa kiasi fulani ni kweli unachosema. Kwa upande mwingine hapana. Ukisema Kanisa Katoliki limetumia whatever ya kipagani ya kuzibadilisha siyo kweli. Mimi sitaki kutmia neno 'pagan' maana kwa kutumia hili neno ni kama kusema Mungu aliwaumba 'pagans' wakati neno lenyewe linaamisha non-Christian na siyo necessarily 'ungodly' or 'immoral'. Mimi niseme Ukristo ulienea hapa duniani kupitia cultures mbalimbali za watu na ulikuta pia dini mbalimbali ambazo mimi naziita 'natural religions' na kila waliokuwa wanaupokea Ukristo waliupokea wakiwa katika tamaduni zao. Hata Yesu mwenyewe alizaliwa katika utamaduni na mazingira ya Kiyahudi na alifanya mambo yaliyokuwa yakifanyika katika tamaduni na mazingira ya Kiyahudi. Mfano, alipozaliwa alipewa jina, alitahiriwa, alikuwa akienda kusali kwenye masunagogi, alipaswa anawe miguu na mikono kama ilivyokuwa katika utamaduni ule nk. Pamoja na haya yote taratibu taratibu Yesu alianza kuchallenge mambo ambayo yalikuwa yanafanywa kwa mazoea na hayakuwa na maana na kuanza kuyapa maana mpya. Mfano, kumwabudu Mungu alikupa maana mpya, kufunga alikupa maana mpya, kutoa sadaka alikupa maana mpya... Na yote haya Yesu aliyakuta yakifanyika na yeye akayapa maana mpya.
3. Ukristo pia ulienea na kwa kutumia njia ileile watu wale wale uliowakuta. Haukuja na watu wapya, siku mpya, sikukuu mpya maana kama watu wale wa mwanzo walikuwa wanaabudu Mungu asubuhi, mchana na jioni hata walipokuwa Wakristo waliendelea kumwabudu Mungu asubuhi, mchana na jioni. Kama walikuwa wakitoa sadaka kwa miungu, waliendelea kutoa sadaka siyo kwa miungu tena bali kwa Mungu. Lakini utoaji wa sadaka uliendelea. Kama walikuwa wanatumia ubani kuonyesha kupokelewa kwa sala zao kwa miungu, waliendelea kutumia ubani siyo kwa miungu bali kama alama ya kuonyesha sala zao zinapokelewa kwa Mungu kwa namna mpya na yenye maana zaidi. Kama walikuwa wanavuna ngano na kutoa sadaka, waliendelea pia kutumia ngano katika ibada zao.
4. Kama Ukristo ungekuja na siku mpya, mazao mapya, fedha mpya, mifugo mipya, hapo ndipo walioupokea wangetakiwa wawe na siku mpya, watumiea mazao na wanyama tofauti ili kuonyesha kwamba ni dini tofauti na dini za asili. Hali Kadhalika kwa Kanisa Katoliki - waliobatizwa walikuwa wale wale wanaotahiri, wanaowapa watoto wao majina, wanaotoa sadaka hadi leo hii.
5. Victor, Frank, Materu na company, wanaongelea dini ambayo haipo hapa duniani, lakini kama wanaongelea dini au dhehebu fulani ni lazima tu lilipokelewa na waumini waliokuwa na mila na tamaduni (dini) zao.
6. Paul, biblia ni tofauti na history book. A history book is a book with records of past events and human activities. If, for instance, we read in a history book that an event X happened in the year Y, it means that is what exactly happened. The bible is not of this nature although it is telling us about something that happened. For instance, the creation story doesn't tell us how God created the world, but it uses a metaphoric language to tell us that God created the world and in fact when God wills something it just happens. So, we have always to read the bible knowing that behind all those narratives there is a lesson (a theology) God is teaching us. If we read that Jesus withdrew to the desert and fasted for 40 days. The focus shouldn't be the desert and 40 days, but what the "desert and 40 days" mean to us since we know "desert" and "40" recur several times in the bible.
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Victor Mwita <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:
Sitachangia tena katika hiliOn Dec 24, 2014 8:22 PM, "Victor Mwita" <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:
Ndugu zangu wapendwa mjadala huu ulihusu uingizwaji wa mafundisho ya kipagani kwenye kanisa la rumi na ukitoa mfano wa krismasi. Kwa kuwa wenyewe wamekiri kwamba wameendelea kuongeza mambo mengi kutoka kwenye upagani kwenye dhehebu lao na wametupa nukuu za kuonyesha kwamba kwao biblia haijitoshelezi na sio final authority bali kuna vitabu vingine vyenye hadhi sawa au zaidi ya biblia. Mimi nimeridhika na ufafanuzi wao na nakiri kwamba wale wanaodai kwamba kanisa hilo linatimiza unabii wa Paulo wa mtu wa kuasi ambaye alitabiriwa kutokea wako sawa na pia kwamba kanisa hili lina sifa zote za mpinga Kristo. Pia mmejionea wanavyowatisha wale wanaojaribu kuonyesha uovu wa kanisa kama walivyofanya miaka enzi za middle ages ambapo waliua watu zaidi ya milioni 50.
Natangaza kuridhishwa na nilichokipata kutoka kwa Telesphor na wenzake. Nitatumia hizi nukuu zao kuwaelimisha watu kuhusu upagani ulio katika kanisa hiloOn Dec 24, 2014 7:11 PM, "'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Magobe, Forgery "Was Quite a Trade in the Middle Ages"CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA speaking of thesematters says: "Substituting of false documents and tampering with genuineones was quite a trade in the Middle Ages" (VI, 136). Let us remember that the "Middle Ages" was theperiod when the Catholic Church had everything her own way. She would evenforge a document in one century and re-forge it in later centuries!!!Catholicism is the most gigantic hoax of history!Epistle of Barnabas: THISIS ONE of the earliest forgeries which figure rather prominently in Catholicwritings. It is referred to as "pseudo-Barnabas," and was written longafter Barnabas was dead, or as Catholic Encyclopedia says: "Was written atthe end of the second century" (Cath. Ency., XIV, 617). Of its character,the same authority says: "From a literary point of view, the Epistle ofBarnabas has no merit. The style is tedious, poor in expression, deficient inclearness, in elegance, and in correctness. The author's logic is weak, and hismatter is not under his control; from this fact arises the numerous digressions"(Cath. Ency., II, 300). This means thatit is a clumsy forgery.
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Frank hata uko unakosali kuna mtu aliyetoa wazo la kuchanga fedha ili mjenge kanisa lenu na pia kuna mtu aliyetoa wazo la kupanua kanisa kulingana na idadi ya waumini mlio nao na nadhani pia kuna mtu aliyetoa wazo la kuweka muda wa ibada kama mnaovyoufuata. Sasa ikatokea muumini mwingine akaweka vyote hivyo in writing si tutapata list kama: Mfano, (1). Job ndiye aliyetoa wazo la kuchangisha fedha mwaka 2010. (2) John ndiye aliyetoa wazo la kupanua kanisa kama lilivyo leo mwaka 2012. (3) Joseph ndiye aliyeanzisha wazo la kuweka muda wa ibada 2011. Sasa kufanya hivyo ni tofauti gani na list yako hapo juu?
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:
Duh! Hii ndiyo inayoitwa "invincible ignorance" (the kind of ignorance that cannot be corrected).
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 3:06 PM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Magobe and all see,ROMAN CATHOLIC INVENTIONS2ndcentury (c.=century)—Presbyters first called priests by Lucian3rdc.—Sacerdotal mass instituted by CyprianA.D.300—Prayers for the deadA.D.300—Making the sign of the crossA.D.320—Wax candlesA.D.375—Veneration of angels, dead saints, and imagesA.D.394—Mass became a daily ritualA.D.431—Beginning of exaltation of Mary, term "Mother of God"first applied to her by Council of EphesusA.D.500—Priests began to wear special clothingA.D.526—Extreme Unction (Rite of Healing)A.D. 593—The doctrine of Purgatory by Gregory IA.D.600—Latin used in worshipA.D.600—Prayers offered to Mary, dead saints, and angelsA.D.610—First man to be proclaimed Pope (Boniface III)A.D.709—Kissing the Pope's feetA.D.750—Temporal power of Popes, conferred by Pepin, King of the FranksA.D.786—Veneration of cross, images, relics authorized.A.D.850—Holy water, mixed with pinch of salt, chrism, and blessed by a priestA.D.890—Veneration of St. JosephA.D.927—College of Cardinals begunA.D.965—Baptism of bells instituted by Pope John XIIIA.D.995—Canonization of dead saints by Pope John XVA.D.998—Fasting on Fridays and Lent11thc.—The Mass developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance made obligatoryA.D.1079—Celibacy of priests declaredA.D.1090—Rosary adopted (pagan) by Peter the HermitA.D.1184—The Inquisition instituted by Council of VeronaA.D.1190—Sale of indulgences12thc.—Seven Sacraments, defined by Peter LombardA.D.1215— Transubstantiation, defined by InnocentA.D. 1215—Auricular confession(Rite of reconciliation) of sins to a priest instead of God, instituted byInnocent IIIA.D. 1220—Adoration of the Host (wafer), decreed by Pope HonoriusIIIA.D.1251—Scapular invented by Simon Stock of EnglandA.D.1414—The cup forbidden to the laity at communion by Council of ConstanceA.D.1439—Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by the Council of FlorenceA.D.1545—Tradition declared of equal authority with the Bible by the council ofTrentA.D.1546—Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of TrentA.D.1560—Creed of Pope Pius IV imposed as the official creed in place of theoriginal Apostolic Creed.A.D.1854—Immaculate Conception of Mary (not Jesus, not virgin birth) proclaimed byPope Pius IXA.D.1864—Syllabus of Errors proclaimed by Pope Pius IX and ratified by the VaticanCouncil, condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, andscientific discoveries which are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted thePope's temporal authority over all civil rulersA.D.1870—Infallibility of the Pope in matters of faith and morals proclaimed by theVatican CouncilA.D.1950—Assumption of Mary proclaimed by Pius XII"RomanCatholic Inventions" are based on a list in Dr. LoraineBoettner's book, "Roman Catholicism," pages 7 & 8 (used bypermission of the author).JohnHenry Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of ChristianReligion," admits that "temples, incense, oil lamps, votiveofferings, holy water, holidays and seasons of devotion, processions, blessingsof fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns),and images...are all of pagan origin" (p.359). Yet, we are told inScripture that to practice these traditions is to make void the Word of God (Matthew15:6), to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9). Also see II John 9-10.TheBible itself declares that the way of salvation is so plain that even "foolsshall not err therein" (Isaias 35:8). When the blind leadthe blind, both fall (Matthew 15:14). The urgent need of our day is tosearch the never changing Scriptures to see if what popes, cardinals, bishops,priests, ministers, and teachers tell us is the TRUTH, OR NOT.In apostolic days, this was done: "Now these were a nobler characterthan those of Thessalonica and they received the word with eagerness, studyingthe Scriptures every day to see whether these things were so" (Acts17:11). Those who do not teach and preach the Gospel—as it is found in theScriptures— are under the curse of God: "But even if we or an angelfrom heaven should preach a gospel to you other than that which we havepreached to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:8). Donot be deceived by false teachers (see Colossians 2:8); Test everything! (IThessalonians 5:21).TheseBiblical truths are offered in a spirit of true Christian love. We ask you toconsider them objectively so that with the Psalmist you can declare,"I have chosen the way of truth" (Psalm 118:30).(AllScripture quotations and references are taken from the Confraternity ofChristian Doctrine Translation of the Catholic New Testament and the DouayVersion of the Old Testament.)
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Frank, now I know your grudges with the Catholic Church. You have said: "Having been a former Catholic, steeped in the culture and traditions of the church, the following issues were mentally and emotionally through time before the choice of obedience to the Word of God by the leading of the Holy Ghost was taken." You cannot be objective in your criticism of the Catholic Church, but you have a bias. It's unfortunate that you've been wasting our time for being what you are. We want any person who engages in a discussion to be open and not harbour unhealthy old memories. This won't help you at all. What you've quoted about the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) above, I don't see where is a problem. Everything is straight forward. May be you failed to understand what those phrases mean. "...these truths and rules are contained in the written books (the bible) and in the unwritten TRADITIONS (meaning the word of God handed down by way of mouth from the teaching of the disciples' successors (what they received and handed it on to their successors also). So, sacred TRADITION is all that is handed down in "unbroken succession" (in continuity) from the time of the disciples' successors to date and this must not contradict the bible.
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 2:33 PM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Telesphor,The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) says:"...these truths and rules are contained in the written books and in the unwritten TRADITIONS... theTRADITIONS, whether they relate to faith or morals, as having been dictated either orally by Christ or by theHoly Ghost, and preserved in the Catholic Canon in unbroken succession." (Council of Trent, 1546, emphasismine)1"...Sacred TRADITION is the handing on of God's Word by the successors of the Apostles. Together,Tradition and Scripture form one sacred deposit of the Word of God, which is committed to the Church..."(Vatican II notes in "Handbook for Today's Catholic", Liguori) 2Jesus said: "But in vain do they worship me, teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men. Ye leave thecommandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men. And he said unto them, Full well do ye reject thecommandment of God that you may keep your tradition." Mark 7:7-9; Matt 15:6-9, Revised Version.Having been a former Catholic, steeped in the culture and traditions of the church, the following issues wereweighed mentally and emotionally through time before the choice of obedience to the Word of God alone by theleading of the Holy Ghost was taken.
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Materu si ni Mungu huyo ndiye amewapa wanadamu akili? Hata hiyo biblia si imeandikwa na binadamu hao usiotaka kuamini kama wana mchango wowote unaohusu kazi ya Mungu? Hivi wewe umetoka kwa nani kama si kwa Mungu? Hivi Mungu alikupa akili kwa kazi gani? Si ili uitumie kumjua zaidi, kumpenda, kumtumikia na hatimaye ufike kwake. Yaani, Materu wewe unachekesha unaposema kama kitu hakitoki kwenye biblia hukisemi. Sasa wewe kwani unatoka kwenye biblia?
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Victor Mwita <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:
Jamani mm nukuu zote ambazo hazitoki kwenye Biblia sizijadili. Kitu cha msingi ni kwamba waumini wa katoliki walio katika mjadala huu wamekiri kwamba wanatumia hekima za kibinadamu kutafsiri Biblia na wakati lile fungu la II Petro 2:20-21 limekataza hilo hakuna haja ya kujibizana nao.
Ukweli ni kwamba mafundisho ya kipagani ni nusu ya mafundisho ya kanisa hiloSent from My IpadOn 24 Dec 2014 13:28, "Telesphor Magobe" <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:
Well done, Juda. You've explained it well.
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 1:13 PM, 'Juda Semali' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Materu,
Thanks for your positive arguments. I earlier said, you must have been misled by the wrong teaching's concerning RC's and its management (Pope, Bishops & Priests).
About confession and forgiveness here are the facts from the bible;
James 5:16 says "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much". So, where does the RC church do wrong?
You should understand that, RC's teaches that, you just don't shout/or ask God for forgiveness. Repentance is a process which should be followed by a true Christian who wants to really bring back his/her relationship with God.
The RC church teaches that, before you go for confession sacrament, you should follow the below 5 steps;
A). Take time to ask urself where did you do wrong in thoughts, in words, in doing daily assignment or in not fulfilling your obligations? (Lk 15:14-17).
B). You should be proud not, yet you should feel sorry and disappointed with whatever wrong you did that caused your relationship with God to go astray (Lk. 15:18-19).
C). Deeply in your heart, intend not to commit sins anymore (Lk. 15:18-19). Its a down to earth self repentance.
D). Confession Sacrament (Psalm 32:1-5; & 1John. 2:1-5). This is what you (Materu) do not want in RC's.
E) Repay/Return back the same thing or its equivalent of what you did wrong to your fellow friend until you committed the sin you are repenting (Lk. 15:19b, Jeremiah 4:14, 2Kings 5:1-14)
I can not write all about confession but I am sure after you have read all the scriptures above you will understand that, the RC church has the right approach towards repentance.
Why do RC's confess their sins to priests? This is the main area of your concerned.
Can you tell me why in one dominion church they ask people to mention their sins in public and that they refer the act as "Kurudi Kundini"?
Can you justify why other Christian churches (you know them) ask people to go for "counselling" (Ushauri na maombezi)? What is the difference with what catholic priests are doing?
The answers why do Catholic priests listen to confession are as follows;
a). In the book of numbers 12:1-16 (concentrate on verse 11-15). Here in the chapter we see God with anger because Aaron and Miriam spoke against moses. In the whole episode, God was there but Aaron never repent to God but to Moses (to whom they committed the sin). Here Moses stands as a servant of God but also as a person to whom the wrong was done. Same applies to RC's priests. When you confess to them, you ask God for forgiveness through them, same as it was done by Aaron. On the other hand, they stand on behalf of those we have hurt since there are sins you can never disclose to the person you did wrong to him. For instance, you killed my son/daughter. You will never be able to come to me to confess about that, but through servant of God, you will confess.
B). RC's confess to priests because he is a servant of God same as Nathan. David confessed to God through Nathan for the wrong he did to kill Uriah 2Sam. 11:1-27. Why David did not confess to God directly? Its because of what Jacob 5:16 says.
C). The story about prodigal son Lk. 15:11-32. It is teaching us the importance to approach the confession seat (Lk. 15:7). Priests represents Jesus since he is a servant of God as they are anointed for that service. The person repenting says "God my father, I have sinned against heaven and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son".
The prodigal son's father represents the priest who offer the confession sacrament (Lk. 15:22-24).
D). Jesus gave his disciples the authority and mandate to remit sins. He said, "............. Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained" (John 20:19-23.
If Jesus gave his disciples the authority to remit sins and the same authority was exercised by Peter who ordained the bishops and bishops ordained the priests, why should you worry and start judging all this?
I tell you Materu, I have read through all the bible to find where the RC's are wrong, but I have never.
That's why I have never left the RC's to go to any other Christian church you may know in my life, be it Lutheran, Assemblies or any other. I have seen miracles happening in my life. Holy spirit speaks with me each now and then.
Just to tell you, my relationship with God in RC church can not be weighted.
On 23rd Aug. 2011 I got an accident my my family (2 children, our house maid, me and my wife) at Same. The car we were travelling overturned and went astray 41meters (139 feets), but. Non of us was hurt. Holly spirit spoke openly with me about the accident and I was given the scriptures from (Acts 2:27) (I never new where the scriptures were coming from when I got the alarm but later after the accident I found them).
The scriptures says "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt though suffer thine holly one to see corruption". I was praying using that verse never saw any destruction to me or to any of my family members.
Does it mean that, we RC's subdue what we don't know?
Go back and read all your scriptures thoroughly to understand your position.
May God bless you abundantly and Holly Spirit enlighten you to understand the word of God
Regards,
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on the Tigo Tanzania NetworkFrom: "'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.comDate : Tue, 23 Dec 2014 14:35:29 +0000 (UTC)To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com<wan abidii@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: wanabidii@googlegroups. comSubject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Semali,The RC Church teaches that herpriests exercise the power of forgiving sins by hearing confession of sins andgranting pardon for them as ministers of God in His name. Even this teaching is not from the Bible. 1. Mark2:7, Who can forgive sins, but God2. Acts4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other3. Acts8:12 Repent, and pray to God [Peter did not hear his confession and forgivehim, but he said, "pray to God"]4. John1:9 If we acknowledge our sins (to God not a priest who claims to be in persona Christi " in Christ's place)1 John 2:1 If anyone sins, we have an advocate(Jesus) with the Father
From: 'Juda Semali' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Materu,
I am sure ur very wrong. I can not put in writing all my urguments with regards to ur criticism to the Roman Catholic Church but for sure you have been misinformed.
I have been reading all ur urguments and I don't find the reason why u should be so pathetic with RC's? God wouldn't have let the church survive if it was misleading the way u are urguing.
1. Where is X-mas date 25th Dec. In the bible? Its clearly understood that, the exact birth date of Jesus is unknown. But what RC's do, the have seasons which reflect the seasonal weather or so when such an incident occur. That's why they celebrate X-mas for 4 consecutive weeks to signify that, its a season when Jesus was Born.
To me the question I would like to ask u is that, can you show me in the bible where it is written that, any one celebrating X-mas on 25th Dec, or 1St Jan or 8th Jan is a sin? Orthodox and Eastern Churches have dates to celebrate X-mas. Others celebrate on 6th of Jan others on March. All those are human interpretations. Why should u attack RC's for celebrating it on 25th Dec? Why can't u speak of 6th Jan and those of March?
On the other hand, Pope "The successor of St Peter" has the mandate from God to make decisions for the church. Jesus told Peter that, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in Heaven. And I say unto thee, that though art Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church (here is RC's), and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee, the keys of the Kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven".
Jesus built his church unto St. Peter the disciple and it is from him, all the RC's pope derive their authority. They decided to change the one you called "The Pagan celebration" into the "Holly Celebration" with the same authority.
I have seen nowa days pubs and recreational centers being changed from sinful venues to churches. Does it have any difference with what the pope did for RC's?.
I would advise you that, never enter into arguments that will not help u inherit the kingdom of God.
Regards,
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on the Tigo Tanzania NetworkFrom: "'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.comDate : Tue, 23 Dec 2014 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC)To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com<wan abidii@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Telesphor, Christians who havemade any effort to talk with RCs about spiritual things know that they havereceived but very little Bible instructions from their priests. But the lack ofBible knowledge is but a natural consequence of the fact that the priests themselveshave only a minimum of a Bible study in their seminary training. It seemssurprising that it takes so long for a priest to discover the truth. There are hundredsof thousands of good, honest and sincere people in RC Church who are unaware ofthe error of its doctrine and perhaps also of the evil that stains itshistory. I urge them to compare what theBible, God's Word, says with the claims and doctrines of the RC Church.
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Frank, you say "the RC Church has led so many millions astray from the Bible... This is why her hierarchy very carefully avoids afree, public discussion of these things." Now I ask you to give supportive evidence of these claims.
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 2:29 PM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Telesphor, the RC Church has ledso many millions away from the Bible. To one who is at all acquainted with themorality taught so clearly in the Bible, the statement quoted here will beshocking. I would like for every leader to know that the RC Church is the most vulnerableinstitution on earth today. This is why her hierarchy very carefully avoids afree, public discussion of these things. Frank
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Kitu gani kiliingizwa kwenye kanisa kwa ujanja ujanja and for whose interest? Dini ninayoiamini mimi kupitia dhehebu langu linaongozwa na Mungu na hivyo I don't care kama mtu mwingine anaona halifai au linaenda kombo. Hata mimi kabla sijaelewa na kwa ujinga tu niliona hivyo, lakini leo naamini ni Kanisa linaloniongoza kuelekea ukweli wa Mungu na kwa njia inayoeleweka vizuri kwangu kuliko kama ningekuwa kwenye dhehebu tofauti. Ufarisayo unaojitokeza humu hata Yesu alikumbana. Si kitu kigeni kwenye historia ya watoto wa Mungu. Hakuna mtu anayeweza kuthibitisha kama hayo mnayosema, Frank and allies, ni kweli. Ni jinsi tu mnavyoona wenyewe kulingana na upeo wenu maana "nyoka huuma afikiapo". Yesu anasema kwenye Injili 'mwenye imani dhabiti ni sawa na nyumba iliyojengwa kwenye mwamba hata dhoruba ipige kiasi gani haiwezi kuanguka na asiye na imani thabiti ni sawa na nyumba iliyojengwa kwenye mchanga. Kama kuna watu wanaomkosoa hata Mungu na uumbaji wake na Yesu mwenyewe, iweje washindwe kulikosoa Kanisa Katoliki na waumini wake?
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Arbo <akihaule@gmail.com> wrote:
Hapo umenena.Nimekupata ndugu yangu.
On Tuesday, 23 December 2014 05:48:13 UTC+1, victormwita wrote:
Ndugu Arbo Biblia yenyewe inasema wazi kwamba Mungu alijifunua kwa watu kwa njia mbalimbali kbl ya wao kuipata Biblia. Lakini sasa anaagiza kila mtu asikiaye neno lake atubu maana ukisikia neno la kweli na ukalipuuza hapo tena huna excuse: utahukumiwa tu kwa hilo neno. Kwa hiyo kama mnaujua ukweli kuhusu upotoshaji unaoingizwa ktk kanisa kwa ujanja na kujikuta actually mnafanya ibada za kimizimu kanisani sidhani kama ni vzr ndg zenu tukae kimya bila kuwaambia maana nasi pia tutahukumiwa kwa kutowaambia.
Bahati mbaya Yesu hakuanzisha dhehebu na Wayahudi wenzake walimkataa ndio maana wokovu ukaletwa kwa mataifa. So far mjadala huu sio wa madhehebu bali unahusu Biblia.
Bora tuuache kama unahusu madhahebuSent from My IpadOn 23 Dec 2014 00:15, "Arbo" <akih...@gmail.com> wrote:
Victor ndugu yangu , sidhani kama mtu anahitaji kusoma biblia ili kufahamu kuwa uzinzi ni dhambi.
Hebu tuchukulie wazee wetu wa enzi zile kabla ya kuingia kwa Ukristu, hivi walikuwa wakiruhusu kuiba? Au uzinzi ulikuwa ni halali ? Walikuwa wakitumia Biblia ipi?
Hoja kubwa hapa , ni kwa baadhi ya wenzetu Wakristu kuonyesha kuwa wao ni waelewa zaidi wa Biblia kuliko wengine. Na wanachukulia kila fundisho la Kikatoliki lakiuka Biblia , ukifuatilia kwa ukaribu utakuta si sahihi hata kidogo. Wengi wa wakosoaji wanalenga zaidi kukuza umaarufu wa dhehebu wanalolifuata, ambalo ukilichunguza pia kwa undani utagundua kuwa lilianzishwa baada ya muasisi wao ama kukosolewa katika mienendo ama kutaka nafasi ya uongozi.!
Wanashindwaje kuhubiri yaliyomo katika Biblia , ili hao Wakatoliki au hao waumini wa dhehebu potofu wakawasikia na kuvutika kwao. Badala yake , wanavalia njuga madhehebu ambayo hata kama watu wakishiriki ama wasiposhiriki hayana lolote katika kuokoa nafsi zao?
Kama kweli tunapenda kufuata Biblia na mafundisho ya Yesu, kwa nini basi tusifuate Dini ya Kiyahudi ? Au Yesu alikataza kuabudu hekaluni? Hii hadithi ya Ukristo imetoka wapi?
Tukianza kuhoji kuhusu kushika Biblia je kuna dhehebu la Kikristo litapona?
Yesu alileta Dini mpya?
On Monday, 22 December 2014 08:59:11 UTC+1, victormwita wrote:
Nadhani huenda hatuna tofauti kuhusu neno nafsi labda tunatofautiana uelewa. Kumpenda Mungu kwa nguvu na akili zetu zote na kumpenda jirani kama tunavyopenda nafsi kunakuja kwa kusoma neno la Mungu-Biblia. Kwa hiyo ukimpenda jirani hutamuua, kumwibia, kuzini naye na mengine mengi. Hayo hutayajua bila kuwa umeyaona kwenye Biblia. Kwa hiyo wote tutahukumiwa kwa kufuata mwongozo mmoja yaani Biblia.
Tatizo langu linakuja pale ambapo dhehebu moja linapoongeza vitu vingi kwa waumini ambavyo havipo katika neno la Mungu. Maana yake ni kwamba Biblia haijitoshelezi au? Biblia hiyo hiyo inasema mtu akiongeza chochote ktk neno la Mungu atahukumiwa.
Kwa nn kuongeza mambo ya kipagani kama srhemu ya ujumbe wa injili? Kama Biblia na Mitume hawakuadhimisha Christmas kwa nn sisi tufanye hivyo huku tukijua ni siku kuu ya kipagani na infact inamsherehekea Tamuzi ambaye ni mpinzani wa Yehova? Sent from My IpadOn 22 Dec 2014 00:24, "Arbo" <akih...@gmail.com> wrote:
Kwa ufupi kabisa ndugu yangu Victor, Dhamiri yako ndiyo hukumu yako kuu. Kila utendacho ama utajipongeza ama utajihukumu hata kabla wazo lako hujalitekeleza kwa vitendo !
Siku ya hukumu, Mungu atakachofanya ni kupitia orodha ya mabishano yaliyotokea kati ya mtu na dhamiri yake kwa kipindi chote cha uhai wake, sasa ikiwa kwa bahati mbaya mabishano yalizidi sana kuliko maridhiano, na pia ikiwa mtu huyo hakubahatika kupata msamaha wa Yesu kabla roho yake haijauacha mwili; hapo ndipo hukumu itakamilika.
Iheshimu sana Dhamiri yako ndugu yangu asikudanganye mtu.
On Sunday, 21 December 2014 06:11:14 UTC+1, victormwita wrote:
We will not be judged based on our conscience but rather in the word of God. Jesus said He will bring bring to judgement those who do not heed His words written in His Book.
Some have gone as far as calling Roman Catholic the anti-christ because it pretends to be christian but in reality half of its doctrines and dogmas are paganSent from My IpadOn 21 Dec 2014 00:26, "Arbo" <akih...@gmail.com> wrote:
Learn to unlearn what you have been made to learn.
Almighty God , is no writer of books nor does God want you to be bothered with them.
Look inside your self, God has implanted a self-governing , self-regulator and I could add the all knowing; your conscience. This is mightier than, you could ever think. Obey it, and you will need neither a RELIGION nor a SECT or a denomination ; you will find no need of a PASTOR or a PREACHER; neither you shall need to listen to SELF-CONCEITED , SELF-ANOINTED individuals who finds no good other than pointing fingers at what others are trying to establish, who never takes effort to build theirs but are busy trying to break down others achievements;this is human, basely human;
obey what God put into you, that is your only survival.
Because no matter what a Preacher tells you, if it is against your Conscience , it shall never be accepted as deserving of salvation. That is why , Jesus , God the Son put it up in a precis; " Your Faith has healed thee" ,yes I will put it even plainer than him; " Your Conscience is your Salvation".
So brethren stop finger pointing, let your conscience lead you.
For on that day, before the Almighty God , your Conscience will be your prosecutor, not the length arguments against Catholics or Protestants or Muslim. None shall count that day. None. Take heed.
On Saturday, 20 December 2014 20:08:26 UTC+1, victormwita wrote:
Though am not judging Roman Catholics but in reality it has and continues to adulterate Christianity by its unbiblical dogmas. It has done much to discredit the bible than has other religions. Unfortunately its believers learn to defend their religion without justfying their arguements using the bible. Sent from My IpadOn 20 Dec 2014 18:04, "Telesphor Magobe" <tma...@gmail.com> wrote:
What I know is that the Catholic Church is a sacrament - a vehicle of salvation and all her liturgical rituals take into account people's cultures and traditions (inculturation) for God uses them to bring about something positive and indeed he has been using them from time immemorial. Take example rituals like initiation, naming of the baby, ablutions, fasting, burying of the dead (including the way Jesus was buried). It's God (not you) who knows His own for God sees in the heart and you outside. Read what Jesus told the pharisees, who pretended to worship God better than others and knew all the ABCs of the law of Moses, but Jesus said challenged them. You could be one of them for you are preoccupied with the speck in other people's eye so much so that you are unable to see the log in your own. After all, God is concerned with individual persons for grace/salvation/sin is personal. No believers will be judged collectively. So, you are just wasting time and energy to criticise the church for whatever for I know God knows how to guide her and her believers better.
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 5:19 PM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wana...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Mungu alisema na wanadamu wayaandike maneno yake kwenye kitabu. Kwa hiyo Biblia ni Kitabu cha Mungu. Kila andiko lina PUMZI ya Mungu. "Kila andiko lenye pumzi ya Mungu lafaa kwa mafundisho,na kwa kuwaonya watu makosa yao, na kwa kuwaongoza, na kwa kuwaadibisha katika haki; ili mtu wa Mungu awe kamili, amekamilishwa apate kutenda kila tendo jema". [2 Timotheo 3:16-17]. Sasa umetutoa nje ya mada. Rudi kwenye mada kuu.
From: Telesphor Magobe <tma...@gmail.com>
To: "wana...@googlegroups.com" <wana...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Ulimwona Mungu akileta hiyo biblia, si ni binadamu ndio walioiandika au iliandikwa na Mungu?
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 3:59 PM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Mungu alileta Neno lake ambalo ni Biblia Takatifu. Wanadamu wakaleta taratibu zao ambazo ni Dini. Mungu si dini na wala hana dini. Wanadamu wakapenda Dini kuliko Biblia.
From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com> To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Mbona hata biblia na dini yenyewe vililetwa hatukuzaliwa navyo. Na vyenyewe tuulize kwa nini Mungu hakutufanya tuzaliwe na bablia na dini mpaka tuletewe na wengine. Maana hata yaliyo kwenye biblia siyo mila na tamaduni zetu.
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:
Mimi nimekubali kupotea maana Yesu alisema anayepoteza nafsi yake kwa ajili yake ataikoa na yule anayeiokoa kama wewe ataipoteza.
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 12:16 PM, 'frank patrick materu' via Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Telesphor, Mungu hapendi mtuyeyote apotee, bali wote wafikie ile toba. Natoa historia fupi ya Krismas nanakaribisha wakosoaji.Taa, Moto na Mishumaa: Wapagani walioabudu mungu jua walitengenezataa na kuwasha mishumaa wakidhani joto lile litampa mungu jua nguvu ya kuruditena wakij
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