Sunday 1 December 2013

[wanabidii] Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto

account146w qt4,
Stop being ignorantly sensational! There is
NOWHERE where "Bensouda can now use even dead witnesses speeches"!
Statements of witnesses who cannot appear were allowed, but with a
clear caveat that they cannot be used in the Kenyan cases!!! Read, and
understand, and STOP relying on passers-by gossip!!!
Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.

On 11/30/13, Faiza Hassan <wasitara@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interpretation: Can Bensoudi use statement of dead witnesses?
> On Nov 30, 2013 8:18 PM, "account146w qt4" <account146w@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you guys realized that anytime the kenyan foreign mission against
>> ICC
>> cases gets something positive then; Bensouda gets extra things on top?.
>> Can you imagine this Bensouda can now use even dead witnesses speeches.
>> The
>> other time she was allowed to introduce more witnesses to testify against
>> Uhuru Kenyatta. The more the postponement the worse for these Kenyans
>> facing ICC. I still think that if ICC had nothing genuine against these 2
>> kenyans they would have already terminated these cases. But Not
>> yet......................Something is cooking very hot for these Kenyans,
>> which will be very hard to swallow.
>>
>> > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 17:04:37 +0300
>> > Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > From: okil@nyamogoadvocates.com
>> > To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > CC: uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com; wanakenya@googlegroups.com;
>> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; thelastwordtokenya@yahoogroups.com;
>> NVK-Mageuzi@yahoogroups.com; wananchi@yahoogroups.com;
>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com; Kiswahili@yahoogroups.com;
>> kenya-can@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > KM,
>> > I am also happy that i seem to detect some sense of genuine
>> > realism coming from the West on this ICC quagmire! The ICC is a
>> > calamity waiting to happen and, i believe, it is in everyone's
>> > interest that it is handled soberly!
>> >
>> > I will never tire up stating that the ICC lost the plot when they
>> > openly declared that there was nothing to stop Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta
>> > and William Samoei Ruto from running for office! Now they must live
>> > with the reality that they have a novel situation where they are not
>> > only trying a "sitting President" but, equally, a "Commander-in-Chief"
>> > in actual command of "armed forces"! I don't know why this simple, yet
>> > pregnant, fact cannot sink in with some people!!! Even the GREAT
>> > America CANNOT do anything about that without getting hurt and, if we
>> > keep encouraging the West in that direction, WE SHALL get hurt, too,
>> > as a people!!! Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta may very well genuinely want to
>> > go to The Hague, but i believe Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta will only go to
>> > The Hague when/after/if "The Commander-in-Chief of The Kenya Defence
>> > Forces" says that Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta may go to The Hague!!! If you
>> > doubt me, check with The Kenya Defence Forces; what it means to them,
>> > having their "Commander-in-Chief" physically present before The ICC!!!
>> > Ambassador Amina Mohammed should,also, be cautioned
>> > that her daily pronouncements of her perceived "success" on these ICC
>> > issues are NOT good negotiating skills, in any forum, but especially
>> > in a forum of sovereign States! Equally dangerous, is the demand for a
>> > special session specifically to amend The Rome Statute and making that
>> > public before the fact! That puts States in a "pressure-cooker" mode,
>> > and is usually a recipe for rejection, simply out of pride! I'd have
>> > sued for quiet diplomacy until i was "cock-sure" of the numbers!!!
>> > Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.
>> >
>> > On 11/30/13, Nyamodi Ochieng Nyamogo <okil@nyamogoadvocates.com> wrote:
>> > > Pastor Birai,
>> > > I detect, and detest, dishonesty in what you are
>> > > saying! You are taking this stance simply because certain things are
>> > > NOT going PREDICTABLY the way you'd have wished! Debate on current
>> > > affairs is no "prediction"! If it chances that, later, results fall
>> > > in
>> > > place, then that's life!!!
>> > > Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.
>> > >
>> > > On 11/29/13, Geoffrey Omollo <kidikibudi@outlook.com> wrote:
>> > >> Wacha za ovyo askofu. Sasa hiyo ya kila mtu najua matako yako
>> > >> imetoka
>> > >> wapi?
>> > >>
>> > >> Mimi najua tu ile ya Kariuki Chotara: Hayati Mtukufu Rais Moi, hii
>> watu
>> > >> yote
>> > >> iko nyuma ya matako yako na matashika matako yako kwa nguvu yote
>> > >> hadi
>> > >> mwisho. Usiogope maadui ya serikali yako hayati mtukufu, mimi
>> matafanya
>> > >> watu
>> > >> hii yote mashike matako yako yote bila kuachiria ndiyo uenderee
>> kutawara
>> > >> mirere.
>> > >>
>> > >> Waigwa?
>> > >>
>> > >> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the
>> Year' in
>> > >> 2006...As indicated on my Resume.
>> > >>
>> > >> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:25:54 -0500
>> > >> Subject: RE: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru
>> > >> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >> From: kjmwangi@gmail.com
>> > >> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > >>
>> > >> Hii Kiswahili ya wapi kijana Omollo? Pastor Birai is Swahilically
>> > >> challenged
>> > >> and could quote you on mtu kumi. Do you need some classes from me on
>> > >> Swahili? Even kaliech of rais moi kila mtu anajua matako yako kabisa
>> > >> could
>> > >> not make such a mistake.
>> > >>
>> > >> Bei ya kufunzwa kiswahili na Mwalimu Kuria ni nafuu.
>> > >> On Nov 29, 2013 12:56 PM, "Geoffrey Omollo" <kidikibudi@outlook.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Pastor,
>> > >>
>> > >> Umesema kama mtu kumi.
>> > >>
>> > >> Pewa gorogoro moja ya chai ya soya hapo kwa bill yangu.
>> > >>
>> > >> Barikiwa!
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the
>> Year' in
>> > >> 2006
>> > >> ...As indicated on my Resume.
>> > >>
>> > >> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:51:57 -0600
>> > >>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru
>> > >> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >> From: prbirai@gmail.com
>> > >> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Geoffrey
>> > >> What is amazing is how precise these guys think they are. They speak
>> with
>> > >> authority and don't like when others differ with them. This is where
>> egos
>> > >> crash and crash hard.What we forget is that way before Uhuru and
>> > >> Ruto
>> > >> came
>> > >> into power, there was Kenyatta, Moi and Kibaki. They all had both
>> > >> good
>> > >> and
>> > >> bad leadership. They are gone never to come back to power.
>> > >> Regardless
>> of
>> > >> how
>> > >> long the 2 will rule, their time of exit will also come and someone
>> else
>> > >> will come on.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Geoffrey Omollo
>> > >> <kidikibudi@outlook.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Pastor,
>> > >>
>> > >> Tell them to be like me. Ugali yangu ya sufuria bado ni lile lile.
>> > >> The
>> > >> day
>> > >> that changes, I will be screaming ICC to hell and back.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Major lifetime achievement: Being Time Magazine's 'Person of the
>> Year' in
>> > >> 2006
>> > >>
>> > >> ...As indicated on my Resume.
>> > >>
>> > >> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:41:30 -0600
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [PK] Re: UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> Uhuru
>> > >> Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >> From: prbirai@gmail.com
>> > >> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Every single day, we have this or that opinion on the ICC. Each
>> > >> commentator
>> > >> feels like they know what exactly is going to happen. Why don't we
>> > >> all
>> > >> lie
>> > >> low and wait for the final verdict. Either way, Kenya will have to
>> move
>> > >> forward
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:33 AM, David ochwangi
>> > >> <dochwangi@yahoo.com
>> >
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Rev KM,
>> > >>
>> > >> This. Is the clearest admission that these cases are falling apart
>> faster
>> > >> than a castle on quick sand. We have always maintained that these
>> were a
>> > >> political witch~hunt and everyone can now see that they wouldn't
>> succeed,
>> > >> they may wanna milk it just for effects but from a practical
>> standpoint,
>> > >> this is over! CORD and the so called civil society need to find
>> something
>> > >> else to peg their hopes on or to keep them busy, the ICC is not it
>> > >> anymore.....
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> From:
>> > >>
>> > >> Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com>;
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> To:
>> > >>
>> > >> progressive-kenyans
>> > >> <progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>;
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Cc:
>> > >>
>> > >> uchunguzi online
>> > >> <uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com>; Africa-Oped
>> > >> <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; VVM Vuguvugu Mashinani
>> > >> <VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com>; WanaKenya
>> > >> <Wanakenya@googlegroups.com>;
>> > >> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>;
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Subject:
>> > >>
>> > >> UK welcomes new rules on ICC trials affecting
>> > >> Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sent:
>> > >>
>> > >> Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:24:37 PM
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Okil, Jexx and others:
>> > >> I think the devil you two mentioned is already out. Those Judges
>> > >> could
>> > >> article the article below to demand presence of the accused in
>> > >> court.
>> > >> Githu
>> > >> and others should have demanded for the articles to be amended so
>> > >> your
>> > >> worries cannot be dismissed.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> The good thing is that those who calls the tune and feed those
>> > >> Judges
>> and
>> > >> other ICC mouths seem genuine in preferring that the cases go on in
>> Hague
>> > >> without the presence of the accused. I strongly think those changes
>> would
>> > >> not have happened if Rao won! I mean if the two gnus didnt win so
>> their
>> > >> position and the diplomacy within AU has paid dividends to some
>> extent.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> What I am almost certain and wish it does not go through is the
>> nonsense
>> > >> of
>> > >> immunity for heads of states. This will be headed nowhere especially
>> > >> after
>> > >> the new amendments unless they think one can run away from justice
>> > >> by
>> > >> holding on to a presidency. They need to think of dictators who can
>> use
>> > >> such
>> > >> avenues as they also think of the monkey on their necks if the cases
>> were
>> > >> not solved.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> All in all, I dont see the judges applying the rules below and
>> demanding
>> > >> that the two be present in Hague. If the two fellows refuses to
>> > >> honor
>> the
>> > >> summons, they will have the support from outside Africa and such
>> > >> moves
>> > >> will
>> > >> be opposed by many from Whitehall to White House. I think the spirit
>> of
>> > >> the
>> > >> ASP was for striking a balance between victims and the need to run
>> > >> the
>> > >> country.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> As Okil said earlier, the ICC knuckleheads shoot themselves in eye
>> balls
>> > >> the
>> > >> moment they said there is nothing wrong with the suspects running
>> > >> for
>> > >> office. The two took it literary and really ran.
>> > >>
>> > >> Kuria
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/United-Kingdom-Uhuru-Kenyatta-William-Ruto-ICC/-/1064/2093088/-/138jf3d/-/index.html
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Still, these rules would not apply if judges choose to go with
>> > >> Article 63 of the Rome Statute. The relationship between the Rules
>> > >> of
>> > >> Procedure for Evidence and that of the Statute is similar to that of
>> the
>> > >> Constitution and an Act of Parliament; the Constitution remains
>> > >> supreme.
>> > >> Article 63 reads: "(I) The accused shall be
>> > >> present during the trial. (II) If the accused, being present before
>> the
>> > >> Court, continues to disrupt the trial, the Trial Chamber may remove
>> the
>> > >> accused and shall make provision for him or her to observe the trial
>> and
>> > >> instruct counsel from outside the courtroom, through the use of
>> > >> communications technology, if required. Such measures shall be taken
>> > >> only in exceptional circumstances after other reasonable
>> > >> alternatives
>> > >> have proved inadequate, and only for such duration as is strictly
>> > >> required."
>> > >> This article together with Article 27 of the
>> > >> Statute which says that the accused are taken in regardless of their
>> > >> standing in the society were not amended during the recent State
>> > >> Parties' conference. However, the Kenyan delegation led by Foreign
>> > >> Affairs Cabinet Secretary Amina Mohamed has indicated that they had
>> > >> issued a notice for special meeting in February next year to discuss
>> > >> amendments to these articles.
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> \
>> > >> Veritas liberabit vosThe truth Shall set you free
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.kuria-mwangi.blogspot.com
>> > >> http://www.facebook.com/kjmwangi
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
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>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> *************************************************************************************************
>> > >>
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