[wanabidii] Re: [PK] Can a Christian lawyer represent a suspected murderer?

Ye All,
The literal and natural meaning of "murder" is, the
premeditated unlawful killing of one human being by another! As the
lawyers are wont to say, it is "killing with malice afore-thought"!
That is how "murder" becomes a "technical term"! That is how/why NOT
all killings/deaths are "murder"!!! Have you EVER contemplated a
situation, where a soldier is hauled into court for "murder", because
he shot dead an enemy in the theater of war???!!!
From the above, the question as to whether a particular
"killing" is "murder" or NOT, is ALWAYS reserved to the TRIAL COURT,
to be decided after assembling and interrogating all the material
facts, to see if they answer to all the ingredients of "murder"! That
is the process the lawyer, including a "christian" one, participates
in, and before that process is complete (judgment), there IS NO
"murder" and the person the lawyer, a "christian" one included, is
representing IS NOT a "murderer"! In a word, i am saying that you
cannot merely "assume murder", you have to establish/prove it!!!
If the issue is merely one of "a suspected murderer", why can't
"a christian lawyer represent" the suspect; if only to prove or
discount the "suspicion"???!!! Doesn't the "Good Book" intone that
"the TRUTH shall set you free"???!!!
Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.

On 12/18/13, paul nyandoto <patriotsjoints@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Pastor Absalom & Nyamogo:
> Let me tell you something you are missing here. Most of you guys in this
> topic have been talking about things you learnt in school or university and
> how you know what the society demands from you.But what Nyamogo is missing
> is this: Nyamogo has confused the reality with the unreality: we all know
> that Schools are a product of history, not of research. So what Nyamogo is
> telling about murder is what he learnt as a lawyer in his time of study. We
> also know today that a child grow from infancy to school age. Through their
> own effort, children figure out how to walk, run , jump, and climb. They
> learn from scratches their native language, and with that, they learn to
> assert their will, ague, amuse, annoy, befriend, charm and ask questions
> which some of you do answer in abusive way in these forums. Instead of
> answering them correctly. But through questioning and exploring, children
> acquire an enormous amount of knowledge about the world we live in.
> Remember this is happening without schooling. Do you know that schools were
> first built to teach people how to read the bible and that was all. Not all
> will learn the same things, in the same way, or at the same time. Our
> society thrives on diversity. We need people with different skills,
> interests, and personalities. But most of all , we need people who pursue
> life with passion and who take responsibility for themselves through out
> life, like pastor Absalom.
>
>> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:26:48 +0300
>> Subject: Fwd: [PK] Can a Christian lawyer represent a suspected murderer?
>> From: okil@nyamogoadvocates.com
>> To: wanakenya@googlegroups.com; thelastwordtokenya@yahoogroups.com;
>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com; wananchi@yahoogroups.com;
>> Kiswahili@yahoogroups.com; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com;
>> kenya-can@yahoogroups.com; NVK-Mageuzi@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Nyamodi Ochieng Nyamogo <okil@nyamogoadvocates.com>
>> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:25:17 +0300
>> Subject: Re: [PK] Can a Christian lawyer represent a suspected murderer?
>> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Pastor Absalom Birai,
>> You ask "Why"?! Because, at times, it is
>> simply painful to suffer fools gladly!!! Look here, you take it upon
>> yourself to talk, so matter of factly, about a subject you know
>> bugger-all about, then you feign shock that i've robustly put you in
>> your place???!!! C'mmon, be serious man!!!
>> Nyamodi
>> Ochieng-Nyamogo.
>>
>> On 12/17/13, Pastor Absalom Birai <prbirai@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Nyamodi
>> >
>> > Let me ask you a question that I have always wanted to ask you and your
>> > learned friends. With the kind of exposure that you have had how come
>> > that
>> > you also resort to using a street language. Why do " learned people"
>> > call
>> > others names. Are we not entitled to personal opinions?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Nyamodi Ochieng Nyamogo <
>> > okil@nyamogoadvocates.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Pastor Absalom Birai & your ilk,
>> >> Enough of this display of
>> >> ignorance here!
>> >> "Murder" is a technical
>> >> term, NOT a factual one! The mere fact of "killing" is NEVER
>> >> necessarily "murder"! One is, therefore, NEVER a "murderer" until, and
>> >> unless, by a court of law adjudged so!
>> >> It is the LEGAL/TECHNICAL
>> >> process of determining whether, or not, one is a "murderer" that the
>> >> lawyer, AND THE COURT, participates in! At that stage, there is NO
>> >> "murderer", just "a suspect/an accused"!
>> >> Pastor Birai, why should
>> >> you moralize about some "Christian lawyers" defending some perceived
>> >> mischief makers???!!! Didn't the Son of God, Himself, say that He came
>> >> for "sinners"?! What was His take about abstinence on Sabbath?! When
>> >> He challenged those who wanted to stone Mary Magdalene, or whichever
>> >> woman that was, was that NOT a quest for justice?! What do you find to
>> >> be the matter with "silver nor gold, have i none, but such as i have,
>> >> give i thee..."?! Weren't some of His disciples not, THEMSELVES,
>> >> LAWYERS; yet did that stop Him from making them "FISHERS OF MEN"???!!!
>> >> Please, be with a sense of
>> >> proportion! You are approaching us from a position of DESPONDENT
>> >> IGNORANCE!!!
>> >> Nyamodi
>> >> Ochieng-Nyamogo.
>> >>
>> >> On 12/17/13, Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Pastor,
>> >> >
>> >> > You've just revealed a very interesting fact about yourself. Not
>> >> > knowing
>> >> > what Pro Bono means !!!!! That tells me that in all your years in
>> >> > the
>> >> US,
>> >> > you've never been involved in any court process.
>> >> >
>> >> > If a lawyer provides his/her services pro Bono, that means he/she
>> >> > is
>> >> > providing the services free-of-charge and just donating it actually.
>> >> > Most
>> >> > lawyers in the in the US usually set aside let's say 5-10% of their
>> >> > time
>> >> to
>> >> > provide their services Pro Bono to the poor and those who can not
>> >> > afford
>> >> to
>> >> > pay legal services.
>> >> >
>> >> > Courage
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:50 AM, Pastor Absalom Birai
>> >> > <prbirai@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Tom
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Is that English? I just woke up and haven't had time to check my
>> >> >> dictionary. Why not make life easy for us by writing simple
>> >> >> English?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Tom Oreje <tomoreje@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> What if its probono?
>> >> >>> On Dec 17, 2013 8:20 AM, "Pastor Absalom Birai"
>> >> >>> <prbirai@gmail.com>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> The difference is that no one paid Jesus to cover their lies. We
>> >> >>>> are
>> >> >>>> not
>> >> >>>> talking about forgiveness here but someone paying another person
>> >> >>>> to
>> >> >>>> cover
>> >> >>>> his sins. Now that is where the problem is.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:00 PM, charles
>> >> >>>> <charlesmogeni@hotmail.com>wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> Pastor, how about the greatest attorney (Jesus) he will right
>> >> >>>>> (cleanse)
>> >> >>>>> our sins before the throne of our Father. So was Moses a
>> >> >>>>> fugitive
>> >> >>>>> murderer, King David who killed his general to feed his lust et
>> >> >>>>> al!
>> >> >>>>> We've
>> >> >>>>> seen genocides in our time and the perpetrators have walked free
>> >> >>>>> like
>> >> >>>>> Rwanda, Nazi Germany, Liberia-Siera Leone war etc. Let's think
>> >> >>>>> about
>> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >>>>> issue in broader perspective.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Charles Mogeni
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:58:36 -0600
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PK] Can a Christian lawyer represent a suspected
>> >> >>>>> murderer?
>> >> >>>>> From: prbirai@gmail.com
>> >> >>>>> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> When it comes to Christianity and lawyers, there are so many
>> >> >>>>> unanswered
>> >> >>>>> questions. I doubt if we as human beings will have satisfactory
>> >> >>>>> answers.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Joseph Lister Nyaringo <
>> >> >>>>> diplomat1499@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> If I'm a lawyer with integrity, I will excuse excuse myself from
>> >> >>>>> such
>> >> >>>>> case. However, as a criminal law practitioner, you must be
>> >> >>>>> prepared
>> >> >>>>> to
>> >> >>>>> defend murderers. The lawyers who defended OJ knew very well
>> >> >>>>> that
>> >> >>>>> he
>> >> >>>>> killed
>> >> >>>>> his wife.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 8:38 PM, Migosi O'Migosi <bmigosi@aol.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Jeff,
>> >> >>>>> Quite thoughtful argument indeed.
>> >> >>>>> Let's hear what others have to say.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Migosi O'Migosi
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I facts don't fit the theory,
>> >> >>>>> Change the facts
>> >> >>>>> "Albert Einstein"
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> -------- Original message --------
>> >> >>>>> From: Geoffrey Omollo
>> >> >>>>> Date:12/16/2013 8:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> >> >>>>> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> >> >>>>> Subject: RE: [PK] Can a Christian lawyer represent a suspected
>> >> >>>>> murderer?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> If confesses murder isn't automatic that the matter be brought
>> >> >>>>> to
>> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >>>>> attention of relevant authorities?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Of course that does not prevent the lawyer from representing the
>> >> >>>>> murderer. I know situational ethics would have us believe that
>> >> >>>>> lawyer-client confidentiality clause comes in thus absolving the
>> >> >>>>> lawyer
>> >> >>>>> from having to report on the matter but proper Christian compels
>> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >>>>> lawyer
>> >> >>>>> to act. He/she might be called upon to give the murderer
>> >> >>>>> Christian
>> >> >>>>> counsel
>> >> >>>>> in the matter so as to make his confession voluntary even as
>> >> >>>>> he/she
>> >> >>>>> pursues
>> >> >>>>> mitigating defense points.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> *Major lifetime achievement: Being named Time Magazine's 'Person
>> >> >>>>> of
>> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >>>>> Year' in 2006*
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> *...As indicated on my Resume.*
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 20:14:06 -0500
>> >> >>>>> Subject: [PK] Can a Christian lawyer represent a suspected
>> >> >>>>> murderer?
>> >> >>>>> From: bmigosi@aol.com
>> >> >>>>> To: progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Folks,
>> >> >>>>> If you are a borne again Christian attorney and your client
>> >> >>>>> confesses
>> >> >>>>> to you privately that they indeed are guilty of murder as
>> >> >>>>> charged
>> >> >>>>> but
>> >> >>>>> there
>> >> >>>>> lacks sufficient evidence to convict.
>> >> >>>>> Would you continue representing this client and would that
>> >> >>>>> constitute
>> >> >>>>> a
>> >> >>>>> sin on your part if you did?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Migosi O'Migosi
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I facts don't fit the theory,
>> >> >>>>> Change the facts
>> >> >>>>> "Albert Einstein"
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter
>> >> >>>>> Security
>> >> >>>>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>>>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> >>>>> at
>> >> >>>>> LydemaLtd@gmail.com or visit www.lydematechnologies.kbo.co.ke
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> TO ADVERTISE HERE: email: amosogal @ gmail.com
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> To subscribe:progressive-kenyans+subscribe@googlegroups.com:
>> >> >>>>> Unsubscribe:progressive-kenyans+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter
>> >> >>>>> Security
>> >> >>>>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>>>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> >>>>> at
>> >> >>>>> LydemaLtd@gmail.com or visit www.lydematechnologies.kbo.co.ke
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter
>> >> >>>>> Security
>> >> >>>>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>>>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> >>>>> at
>> >> >>>>> LydemaLtd@gmail.com or visit www.lydematechnologies.kbo.co.ke
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter
>> >> >>>>> Security
>> >> >>>>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>>>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> >>>>> at
>> >> >>>>> LydemaLtd@gmail.com or visit www.lydematechnologies.kbo.co.ke
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> >>>>> --
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>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter
>> >> >>>>> Security
>> >> >>>>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>>>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> >>>>> at
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>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter
>> >> >>>>> Security
>> >> >>>>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>>>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> >>>>> at
>> >> >>>>> LydemaLtd@gmail.com or visit www.lydematechnologies.kbo.co.ke
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter
>> >> >>>> Security
>> >> >>>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> at
>> >> >>>> LydemaLtd@gmail.com or visit www.lydematechnologies.kbo.co.ke
>> >> >>>>
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>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> >>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >>> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter Security
>> >> >>> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA
>> >> >>> TECHNOLOGIES
>> >> >>> at
>> >> >>> LydemaLtd@gmail.com or visit www.lydematechnologies.kbo.co.ke
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> >>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
>> >> >> FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter Security
>> >> >> Lights,
>> >> >> Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA TECHNOLOGIES at
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> *************************************************************************************************
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>> >> Lights, Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA TECHNOLOGIES
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>> > --
>> > *************************************************************************************************
>> > FOR CCTV Camera system, Security Alarm Systems, Perimeter Security
>> > Lights,
>> > Fencing in Western Kenya region: Contact LYDEMA TECHNOLOGIES at
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>> > *************************************************************************************************
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