Sunday 27 October 2013

[wanabidii] Re: [PK] Re: ICC No Solution To 07 Post Election Violence

Rose,

Have you noticed that a lot of these noises against the ICC are usually made when Ruto is at The Hague? The moment Ruto goes to the Hague, you will see his URP wing very quiet but the TNA side of the Jubilee is foaming in the mouth vilifying the ICC !!!  Some people have speculated that the TNA does this to enrage the ICC when Ruto is at The hague so that the ICC can get angry enough to decide to lock up Ruto for the rest of the trial.

But when Uhuru goes to the Hague, the TNA wing is very quiet and very respectful of the ICC and says that Uhuru will cooperate with the ICC and eventually clear his name. Just watch and see if Uhuru by any chance goes to the Hague, you will not hear a sound from the TNA wing. Not a squeak. They will be very respectful of the ICC.

I'm beginning to believe that conspiracy theory against Ruto. The trend is very consistent. These people are trying to get Ruto locked up.

Courage



On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 1:58 PM, ROSE KAGWIRIA <ikirimakagwiria10@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hhehehehehehe people. My mother used to tell us if you want to catch a thief, just try this. Get a stone and stand at infront of the people you suspect and tell them to keep off from the thief who stole your property. The guy will be the first to run. Now why are these guys so scared if they know they are inocent? Why are their allies planning to to block them from going to Hague? These guys have all the powers to stop these guys including some clergy from doing this would be silly action. Why no comment so far?



On Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:45 AM, Pastor Absalom Birai <prbirai@gmail.com> wrote:
MO

Is it fair then to say that our actions/support is solely based on "what we can get" and not on principle. How sad indeed !


On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com> wrote:
Pastor,

That is our nature as Kenyans and we will not change it unless society undergoes a major transformational change. We're a very "politicized" society by nature and all decisions we make are "political" in nature.

Let me explain what I mean by a political decision.
Suppose your wife provokes and insults someone and then spits on his face and kicks him in the crotch and instead of showing outrage at the wife and apologizing to the victim, you proceed to confront him too and make it look like your wife was the victim. You have made a political decision, not a judicial or logical decision. You're supporting your wife no matter what.

Now a similar thing may happen but it's a friend or a politician you like or want something from that is the offender/aggressor. You will support him/her even if he/she commits murder. In fact you will blame the murdered victim for "overreacting" or "not knowing how to handle the situation". And probably call the murder victim all kinds of names. All in the pursuit of trying to endear yourself to the murderer.

What we're seeing with Uhuru and Ruto supporters is an old stale culture in Kenya. We support "one of our own" no matter what. Usually it's because we're either related to that person or there's something we want from that person so we do that to cement the relationship/friendship and to show them that we're loyal to them.

We have a long way to go Pastor, a very long way to go before we stop making political decisions.

Courage 


On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Pastor Absalom Birai <prbirai@gmail.com> wrote:
MK & MO

I have a problem with those who are deceiving others and those that are deceived. Some things are so clear that you don't need to be deceived. The problem with us human beings is that we tend to condone bad stuff as long as its done by those we love. Fairness demands otherwise


On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 10:23 AM, khaguli maurice <mkhaguli@yahoo.com> wrote:

Birai,
That's the point many Kenyans affected by PEV share. The two guys smartly fooled religious community in Kenya and now even  believers themselves are shocked with the development. Believers are good at patience and speek volumes
We stand to emphasize the truth, truth is one!

------------------------------
On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 8:15 AM PDT Pastor Absalom Birai wrote:

>Rose
>
>It takes Jesus to change the heart. Claiming to be a Christian is not
>enough. Church for the sake of it is just a waste of time. Our actions must
>support our belief system
>
>
>On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Rose Ikirima Kagwiria <
>ikirimakagwiria@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I hope somebody has not been fooled. May be the people who led PEV were
>> fooled the same way . preasts, pastors and many religious leaders have been
>> misled on the same way. Where are kenyans ending to? Nobody to trust any
>> more. Am sure this is why it happened in Kiambaa church and in Rwanda where
>> many died in churches.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Pastor Absalom Birai <prbirai@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>  Martin, I totally concur with you when you say "Am one who believes
>> that if they are innocent they will be proved so". To tell the truth, if I
>> were Uhuru or Ruto, I will not do what they are doing to stop this case. I
>> will let the ICC do its work and find out the truth. By doing what they are
>> doing, it makes people suspicious. Is there no one closer to them who can
>> advise them otherwise? In my opinion, they keep on making things
>> complicated for no reason
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:11 AM, martin njalale <njalale_m@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>>
>>> Omwenga i dont agree with u on this.If we have intentions to wipe out
>>> this
>>> senseless violence at almost every election,we have to bite the bullet.A
>>> lot
>>> of ppl are opposed to the cases coz the politicians they support are
>>> there.
>>> If it was diff. ppl huko they would be supporting them.Just like the ICC
>>> appeal
>>> court judge said.We can not be seen to be favouring where it suits.Am one
>>> who believes that if they are innocent they will be proved so.I dont
>>> and will
>>> never support anybody plotting to kill another Kenyan.A lot of things
>>> that have
>>> happened have tought us not to believe face value claims and denials.
>>> I could have supported the local courts determining the cases but u and
>>> me
>>> know better
>>>
>>> My two cents
>>>
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>>  *From:* Nelson Oreje <nelsonoreje@gmail.com>
>>> *To:* wanakenya@googlegroups.com
>>> *Cc:* Progressive-Kenyans <progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>; KOL <
>>> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, 27 October 2013, 9:07
>>> *Subject:* [PK] Re: ICC No Solution To 07 Post Election Violence
>>>
>>> KM, are u Sam's spoke's person? On the other hand, I'm or was very
>>> categorical on ma qn cum comment in this matter. All the same, Nkaisseri is
>>> inconsequential to me.
>>> Only the paranoid survive
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: * Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com>
>>> *Sender: * wanakenya@googlegroups.com
>>> *Date: *Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:27:42 -0400
>>> *To: *WanaKenya<wanakenya@googlegroups.com>
>>> *ReplyTo: * wanakenya@googlegroups.com
>>> *Cc: *Progressive-Kenyans<progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>; KOL<
>>> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>
>>> *Subject: *Re: ICC No Solution To 07 Post Election Violence
>>>
>>> Nelson
>>> That is what Khaguli calls emphasizing the truth. I didnt know that
>>> Omwenga must always agree with watu wa machungwa. So one cannot hold a
>>> different opinion?
>>>
>>> If Omwenga is wrong, is this former assistant minister in Raila's
>>> cabinet, Nakaisry (sp) also wrong because he is supporting Uhuru on Hague
>>> issue? So he will be attacked and shown the door the way it seems Omwenga
>>> is being shown? So what is wrong with this ODM MP of Kajiando Central?
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UwkXqhwQg0
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Nelson Oreje <nelsonoreje@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> **
>>> Omwenga, I wonder why the change of heart, but, all the same well n
>>> good. Previously, I thought u were being satirical but, now, u confound me.
>>> Only the paranoid survive
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: * Samuel Omwenga <somwenga@gmail.com>
>>> *Sender: * wanakenya@googlegroups.com
>>> *Date: *Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:58:18 -0400
>>> *To: *Progressive-Kenyans<progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>; KOL<
>>> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>; Wanakenya<wanakenya@googlegroups.com>
>>> *ReplyTo: * wanakenya@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject: *ICC No Solution To 07 Post Election Violence
>>>
>>> In my column this weekend ICC No Solution To 2007 Post Election
>>> Violence,
>>> <http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-141137/icc-not-solution-poll-violence>I
>>> continue to make the case the ICC cases should be terminated and/or brought
>>> back home for a local solution.
>>>
>>> Excepts:
>>>
>>> Contrary to what many believe, all indications are that justice for
>>> post-election violence (PEV) victims cannot be had at the International
>>> Criminal Court. Neither would closure of any kind be had there for this
>>> dark chapter of our country's history.
>>>
>>> This is true regardless of what one believes "justice" to be for PEV.
>>> There are those who believe the trial, conviction and jailing of the ICC
>>> suspects is what justice calls for while there are those who believe such
>>> an outcome would be the very definition of more injustice from the
>>> imperialist west.
>>>
>>> No surveys have been done on this but one would have to assume the
>>> country is divided almost evenly as to who is on what side of either of
>>> these two sides.
>>> …
>>>
>>> This is why Ruto walks even before the gory details of the crimes
>>> committed are considered. As previously argued by this writer, Ruto walks,
>>> the president walks as well because it's unfathomable that a sitting
>>> president could be convicted under these circumstances, especially given
>>> the genesis of these cases.
>>>
>>> To be sure, it's equally unlikely the prosecutor can satisfy the
>>> technical requirements to convict under which Ruto walks as regards to
>>> Uhuru. The only way that happens is someone like Muthaura singing like a
>>> canary but we know that won't happen so no case there either.
>>>
>>> All this, then, leaves as the only viable solution terminating or
>>> deferring the cases and making it possible to create a mechanism by which
>>> the victims can be compensated while there's a quest for true peace and
>>> reconciliation between and among those who were affected and all Kenyans.
>>>
>>> Peace, Unity and Truth
>>>
>>> Omwenga
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>>> Veritas liberabit vos
>>> The truth Shall set you free
>>> http://www.kuria-mwangi.blogspot.com
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