Paul predicted the "Middle Ages" and Catholic apostasy: "But evil men and seducers shall grow worse and worse: erring, and driving into error, But continue thou in those things which thou hast learned and which have been committed to thee. Knowing of whom thou hast learned them: And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice: That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work. I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming and his kingdom: Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables" (2 Tim. 3:13 through 4:4, Douay Version).
Catholic History Series of Forgeries: Unreliability of Catholic Literature: "Speaking Lies in Hypocrisy"
PAUL SAYS, in 1 Timothy 4:2, of false teachers, who lead men away from the faith that they will speak "lies in hypocrisy." He speaks again in 2 Thes. 2:9 of the "lying wonders" of the man of sin. The surprising thing concerning Roman Catholic writers is their lack of reticence in applying that sort of characterization to the Catholic Church by using practically every synonym for forgery and lying in the language, to describe their own literature.
From: Joseph Ludovick <josephludovick@gmail.com>
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Christmas: Where are you in the Bible?
Paul
I can assure you that your well articulate imputs will fall in the "darkness of Ignorance" of these people. Wait your dissappointment.
I can assure you that your well articulate imputs will fall in the "darkness of Ignorance" of these people. Wait your dissappointment.
On Dec 24, 2014 5:41 PM, "'Paul Liyai' via Wanabidii" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--Ndugu Zangu Wanabidii,Nimekuwa nikfwata mjadala huu kwa umbali kwa sababu maandishi wengi wenu mnayatumia ni madogo sana yanyochosha macho ya wazee kama mimi. Please let me write in English.The main issue of this thread was whether Christmas is in the Bible or not. My take is; Christmas is in the Bible if those looking for it in there want to meet the one who was born.Those who want to know the Jesus of the Bible, will find Christmas therein. On the other hand, Christmas is not in the Bible for those who want to meet the day i.e 25/December as a Birthday. In my understanding, all Christian Churches do not celebrate the day, they celebrate the one who was born one day whether it was on whichever date.Focus here is on Jesus and not on the calendar.I have read too that the Roman Catholic Church introduced pagan worship in the Christian faith. The truth is, the gospel of Jesus traforms cultures and the people. Christianity comes to a people and not the other way round. When Christianity was preached to the Roman world, the Roman Citizens embraced the faith and the faith has been transforming that culture of the Romans removing those things that are not in line with the Bible and retaining the ones that are good.For example all the days of the week were named after the sun, the moon and the five known planets, which were in turn named after the gods Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, and Cronus. The Greeks called the days of the week the Theon hemerai "days of the Gods". The Romans substituted their equivalent gods for the Greek gods, Mars, Mercury, Jove (Jupiter), Venus, and Saturn. (The two pantheons are very similar.) The Germanic peoples generally substituted roughly similar gods for the Roman gods, Tiu (Twia), Woden, Thor, Freya (Fria), but did not substitute Saturn.(http://www.crowl.org/lawrence/time/days.html) All these days are not in the Bible but we still use them now and we do not go to work on Sunday and Saturday.( Friday for Islamic Countries) Therefore Christianity entered the human Culture and allowed the retaining of these names although they all belonged to other "gods" .There is somebody who said that they bible was written in a figurative language. This is a half truth because not all the books of the bible are figurative. The right thing to say is; The Bible was written in a human language which is also fallible. Human language utilizes all those linguistic features including figures of speech like metaphors and parables. Like books of History and the Law are to be read and understood that way. For example where the Bible says in Joshua 7 That a man called Achan stole things and was punished, that is exactly what happened as the law stipulated. You cannot interpret this chapter otherwise. I would like to say that Hermeneutics is the science of interpretation and Exegesis is a part of the process of hermeneutics, the science of interpretation.They are not one and the same thing as somebody said.So back to the main issue of Christmas, we who believe do not worship the day but the Jesus of was Born one day. Even if the world changes and decided to put Christmas on the first Sunday of the lunar year, Christians will not have a problem with that because our God never changes He is the Same yesterday and forever more.God bless you all.PauloOn Wednesday, December 24, 2014 6:18 PM, Victor Mwita <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:
Telesphor biblia haitafsiriwi nje ya biblia. Kinyume chake ni upotoshaji. Petro aliliona hilo ndio maana akatoa onyo. Huwezi kutumia human inteligence kutafsiri neno la Mungu. Unachoweza kutumia ni divine intelligence. Sasa kwa kuwa mnatumia human intelligence endeleeni
Kwa sasa naishia hapa. Labda nipatiwe majibu ya maswali yanguSent from My IpadOn 24 Dec 2014 13:47, "Telesphor Magobe" <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:--Victor, afadhali useme hujaelewa nilichokisema kuliko kusema umeelewa. Biblia imeandikwa kwa lugha ya hekima (wisdom literature) ambayo inatumia figures of speech. Ndiyo kusema, maneno yake yamejaa maana na ili uelewe lazima ufanye 'hermeneutics' au 'exegesis'. Bila kufanya hivi unaenda kapa. Utakalia kusema hiki hakikusemwa kwenye biblia au hiki kiko vile kumbe huelewi kinachosemwa. Mfano nilioutoa unaonyesha jinsi watu wengi wanavyosoma na kuelewa biblia isivyo. Hebu fikiria mtu akisoma [the camel is the ship of the desert (ngamia ni meli ya jangwani)] aelewe kwamba ngamia ni meli na jangwa ni bahari. Wakati huu msemo unataka kuonyesha kwamba ngamia jangwani ni kama meli baharini. Ni kama watu wengine wakisoma "creation narrative" kwamba "God rested on the seventh day" wanaelewa kwamba siku hiyo Mungu alichoka na akaamua kupumzika na ili wapate kuabudu lazima eti wahesabu 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 na kufanya siku ya saba yaani Jumamosi sabato as if Mungu wakati anaumba alikuwa na kalenda kama tuliyo nayo leo. Lakini ingawa imeandikwa hivi, understanding yake ni kwamba siku saba zinaonyesha ukamilifu wa kazi ya Mungu - yaani kwamba Mungu akifanya kitu anakifanya kwa ukamilifu na huko kupumzika kunakosemwa si kwa ajili ya Mungu bali ni kwa ajili yetu. Maana yake tumpe Mungu nafasi katika maisha yetu. Au tukisoma kwamba God created human in God's image and likeness siyo kwamba eti jinsi tulivyo ndivyo Mungu alivyo, hapana. Bali maana yake ni kwamba Mungu ametuumba na kutupa heshima (dignity). Hivyo Victor, Materu, Frank and allies hivi ndivyo inapasa tuisome biblia. Tuisome kwa kuitafakari ili kujua Mungu ana ujumbe gani kwani kwetu. Hakuna kitu chochote cha kipagani ambacho kipo ndani ya Kanisa Katoliki. Labda kama wewe mwenyewe unataka kukiweka au si ukionyeshe jinsi kilivyo cha kipagani na useme kwa nini unasema hivyo?--On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Victor Mwita <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:Telesphor
Nafikiri sasa umetupa mwanga wa kutosha kwamba Kanisa Katoliki linaingiza mambo linayoona yanalifaa kwenye neno la Mungu. Mengi au yote yaliyoingizwa ni ya kipagani. Hicho ndio tulikuwa tunauliza. Kwa hiyo hakuna hoja tena hapa. Mimi nimeelewa sana hasa pale uliposema the Bible is not the only word of God na kwamba God never directed the Bible to be written na hii ya kwamba u need human intelligence to direct you how to live. I can direct you to read II Peter 2:21-21 and then read what Apostle Paul says as to why we have a written word of God and finally read John's warning in Revelation chap. 22.
You correctly said what is written in the Bible enough for our salvation which means there is absolutely no need of human intelliegence nor any addition. If you follow what is in the Bible through the leadership of the Holy Spirit it is enough to save you. My question is: why is the RC church mixing paganic beliefs in its teachings?? I have cited them but you are not answering me zaidi ya kutushambulia kaka.Sent from My IpadOn 24 Dec 2014 12:50, "Telesphor Magobe" <tmagobe@gmail.com> wrote:--The problem I find with critics of the Catholic Church is "little knowledge". If you have little knowledge about anything even about what you are discussing you have will have understanding and little contribution to the discussion either. Little knowledge cannot understand simple and complex issues. The Catholic Church has immense knowledge, wisdom and literature about God, humans and the universe. Certainly, she cannot be changed by little minds and fall. The church is grounded on hard rock. Joseph you have put it very well the main categories of God's self-revelation to humanity. Actually, the bible contains only what's necessary for salvation, but how this can be explained and understood is not contained in the bible. So, you need human intelligence through which God directs humans how they should live and behave. After all, God never commanded the bible to be written. It was only written because of human needs. In short, the Catholic Church believes in foundational revelation (the bible) and ongoing revelation (God speaking through creation, events, God's people etc). That's why even if we read the bible, we have also to ruminate it and find its application in real life. God created a "perfect-able world" - a world capable of being perfected. That's why sinners are called to convert and turn to God. We are all in the process of becoming of what we are not or were not before. Victor, the bible is simply a form of preserving God's word, it's not the only word, there's also spoken word. By the way do you know how the bible came about? It was spoken word put into writing and you cannot say only what's written and punctuated is only what God did. Victor, what is it that you call pagan? I can also call you pagan if you want for the word is nothing else than being pejorative. Frank, you believe only what is in the bible is true why should we believe that what you are saying is true for you are not written in the bible? Secondly, above you have quoted some writings from authors who are critical of the Catholic Church. Is that also written in the bible or you use it to suit what you just want to convince us although the material is thin? You have said above: "Anything not written in the Bible is not frm God." Are the authors you have been quoting from the bible and does what they say against the Catholic Church from God? Materu, unaposema mnajua vya kutosha kilicho kwenye bible na hamdanganyiki, kwani nyinyi mnamdanganya nani? Tofauti yetu na nyie (Frank and allies) ni kwamba mumekariri biblia inavyosema, sisi tunasema maana ya kile kilichosemwa. Nikupe mfano mdogo kwa kutumia msemo huu: "The camel is the ship of the desert." Nyie mnasema ngamia ni meli ya jangwani - ndivyo mnavyosoma na kuelewa. Sisi tunasema kama meli ilivyo chombo cha usafiri baharini na ziwani, vivyo hivyo ngamia jangwani. Nadhani umeelewa jinsi mnavyosoma biblia na kuelewa na jinsi sisi tunavyosoma na kuelewa.--On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 9:55 PM, Victor Mwita <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:Yesu hakusema lolote ambalo halikuandikwa kwenye Torati na Manabii Joseph.
Mbona hujibu maswali yetu bali unatuhukumu tu?
Tumekutajia mafundisho ya kipagani yaliyo RC huyajibu ila unaleta mambo yasiyohusiana???Sent from My IpadOn 23 Dec 2014 21:38, "J L Kamala" <jlkamala@gmail.com> wrote:--joseph jifunze kujibu hoja kwa hoja na sio kuwashambuliaga tu watoa hoja--On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Joseph Ludovick <josephludovick@gmail.com> wrote:Mbona hata.Yesu alikutana nao mizungu ya reli kama nyie? Na kila mara alikuwa akiwaambia kama.mnayajua maandiko.mbona hili hamlijui? Sasa nyie mmepotoka na mnapotosha na wengineOn Dec 23, 2014 9:13 PM, "Victor Mwita" <victormwita@gmail.com> wrote:--
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--J L Kamala
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Send Emails to wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wanabidii" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
0 comments:
Post a Comment