[wanabidii] Re: [PK] The Truth About ICC Cases Against Uhuru, Ruto and Sang

Omwenga,
When did this "truth" hit you; after March 4, 2013 or
after the "intellectually shallow" Supreme Court verdict?! You bore
me, really, with your ever conveniently shifting hallucinations!!! You
worry me that if you were a harlot, it would not be beyond you to even
walk stark naked to attract custom!!! I know your patented response is
that i am an "idiot" or a "moron" or both or even worse, but better
that than your apparent restless, nay relentless, quest for
whatever!!!
Nyamodi Ochieng-Nyamogo.


On 10/5/13, Samuel Omwenga <somwenga@gmail.com> wrote:
> Francis,
>
> I understand your concern and it's actually mine as well but I do have some
> reason and hope to believe it can and will be addressed if people are
> serious about bring closure to this matter and ensuring that the victims
> get what's just for their losses be it loved ones or property.
>
> Peace, Unity and Truth
>
> Omwenga
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 11:27 AM, <bapfrancis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> **
>> Sam
>>
>> I agree with you that a local solution would be best including a civil
>> penalty as suggested.
>>
>> My concern is that I haven't seen any evidence of a commitment of our
>> local system so far for justice of the victims. As a Kenyan citizen, I am
>> personally convinced this is a police state and is totally wary of
>> entrusting my grievances to the justice system. The police and courts are
>> still feared in my view.
>>
>> My benchmark is the UK system where the police are deemed a friend of the
>> people and is trusted. I read that some parents reported their own
>> children
>> for looting to the police for action. I hope we shall reach there someday
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Francis
>> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: * Samuel Omwenga <somwenga@gmail.com>
>> *Sender: * progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> *Date: *Sat, 5 Oct 2013 11:15:06 -0400
>> *To: *Progressive-Kenyans<progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>
>> *ReplyTo: * progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>> *Cc: *KOL<kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>; Wanakenya<
>> wanakenya@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [PK] The Truth About ICC Cases Against Uhuru, Ruto and
>> Sang
>>
>> Francis,
>>
>> I am re-posting something here I first posted almost a year ago not just
>> to prove my consistency on this topic but to pose a question in the end I
>> am curious about your take and others' take as well:
>>
>>
>> In Will Kenya Be Governed From The
>> Hague?<http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-95942/will-kenya-be-governed-hague>published
>> in the Star, I analyze the meaning of the ICC cases in the Kenyan
>> political context and note how unprecedented and impractical it would be
>> to
>> have a president and even a president and his deputy spending months at
>> the
>> Hague defending themselves--an outcome that should never be if we are to
>> move our country forward. I in the meantime also conclude the only
>> solution
>> that can bring a close to this dark saga in our country is to bring the
>> cases home and set up a mechanism for the suspects to be tried in a
>> civilproceeding and if found liable, to pay a
>> civil penalty for the benefit of the victims.
>>
>> I come to this conclusion because it's my view none of these suspects
>> will
>> ever be convicted, let alone see the inside of jail for the serious
>> crimes
>> they stand charged.
>>
>> Excepts:
>>
>> *In any mature democracy, such charges, especially when the indictment is
>> handed down by a global court would not be compatible with holding high
>> office. It is taken for granted, that you can either be president, or you
>> can face charges at the ICC - but not both.*
>>
>> ...
>>
>> *The reality of it is, and the sooner everyone comes to grips with this
>> the better, it's unlikely anyone will ever be found guilty, let alone be
>> hanged or sent to prison for a long time. Indeed, of the remaining four
>> suspects, only Uhuru and Muthaura stand a remote chance of being
>> convicted
>> but even they, will likely walk free just as Ruto and Sang will.*
>>
>> ...
>>
>> *Given this fact, it would be more meaningful and a sense of justice and
>> closure for the PEV victims if the aforementioned three conditions for
>> bringing the cases back home are met, we have the cases tried at home
>> and,
>> in the event the suspects are not found guilty of the criminal charges
>> they
>> are charged with, they can still be subjected to trial for civilliability
>> where punishment shall be monetary compensation of the victims,
>> not going to jail—punishment any of them would be happy to pay in lieu of
>> going to jail.*
>>
>> *Granted, special laws have to be passed to make this happen but that's a
>> far much better proposition than what they face now where they all could
>> walk and the victims are left with nothing.*
>>
>> *More importantly, imposition of a civil penalty in lieu of criminal
>> sanction will be the best way to end this national nightmare everything
>> considered and right now we need closure more than anything else as we
>> head
>> into electioneering period.*
>>
>> **
>> *
>> *
>>
>> How about this, namely, imposition of civil penalty as an alternative to
>> the near impossible being pursued now?
>>
>> Peace, Unity and Truth
>>
>> Omwenga
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:58 AM, <bapfrancis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> Much as I don't want to see our leaders jailed, and don't know if they
>>> are guilty or not, I think its only the victims who can really advocate
>>> for
>>> the cases to be terminated at the ICC.
>>>
>>> I haven't yet seen any mechanism in Kenya that is purely focussed on
>>> justice for the victims.
>>>
>>> This should. Transcend whatever positions the accussed hold
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Francis
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: * Samuel Omwenga <somwenga@gmail.com>
>>> *Sender: * progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>>> *Date: *Sat, 5 Oct 2013 10:37:52 -0400
>>> *To: *Progressive-Kenyans<progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>; KOL<
>>> kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>; Wanakenya<wanakenya@googlegroups.com>
>>> *ReplyTo: * progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject: *[PK] The Truth About ICC Cases Against Uhuru, Ruto and Sang
>>>
>>> In my Star column this weekend The Truth About ICC Cases,
>>> <http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-138569/truth-about-icc-cases>I
>>> continue to make the case the ICC cases against President Uhuru Kenyatta
>>> and his deputy William Ruto as well as Joshua arap Sang's must be
>>> terminated and/or referred back home for our country to fashion a
>>> solution
>>> that can ensure justice for the victims
>>> of PEV
>>> and bring closure to this tragic saga of our beloved country's history.
>>>
>>> The column for those with difficulty accessing via a link:
>>>
>>> Ask any Kenyan what they expect from the ICC cases and you will get a
>>> response from nearly all of them that they want "justice for the victims
>>> of
>>> post-election violence" or some variation of this notion.
>>>
>>> However, what "justice" is or means for any of them is not the same
>>> thing. On one extreme, nothing short of trying, convicting and hanging
>>> the
>>> ICC suspects would be deemed to be justice.
>>>
>>> Here, you will likely find those who were directly affected by PEV,
>>> especially those who lost loved ones. To this group, anything less will
>>> not
>>> be justice and this is true for them regardless of whether the suspects
>>> are
>>> guilty or not.
>>>
>>> On the other extreme, there are those who believe there cannot be
>>> justice
>>> at the ICC because the process is flawed and aimed at hanging the
>>> innocent
>>> or at least poised to try to.
>>>
>>> Here, you will find nearly all members of the suspects' communities and
>>> others who align with them socially or politically. In between these
>>> extremes, you'll find two groups leaning towards either of these two
>>> extremes:
>>>
>>> On the one hand, you will find those who believe justice must be had but
>>> they don't necessarily clamour or long for the hangman's noose. Rather,
>>> to
>>> them, any jail sentence upon conviction of at least one of these
>>> suspects
>>> will be a good enough punishment.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, you will find those who believe justice can be had at
>>> the ICC, flawed as it may be but this same group would not mind at all
>>> were
>>> the cases to be terminated or brought back home for prosecution.
>>>
>>> The central question one must then ask, given these circumstances, is
>>> who
>>> is where among these groups and how significant are the groups? This in
>>> turn leads to the inevitable question, to what extent would the powers
>>> that
>>> be consider the significance of these groups in reaching an ultimate
>>> solution to the ICC cases, be it at trial or regarding Kenya's request
>>> to
>>> terminate the cases and refer them back home for further action.
>>>
>>> In answering this question or attempting to, one must accept the
>>> distinct
>>> reality from all of this and that's, given how things stand at this
>>> moment,
>>> it's highly unlikely that either Uhuru or Ruto will be convicted in The
>>> Hague.
>>>
>>> The trial of Ruto's case is already underway and many, including this
>>> writer, have analysed the case against him and long ago concluded Ruto
>>> cannot be convicted unless he seriously botches his defense.
>>>
>>> The accusation often lobbed at those who hold this view is, how can we
>>> say this without knowing all the evidence the prosecution has and the
>>> answer is the prosecution cannot possibly come up with evidence beyond
>>> what
>>> is already publicly known to make a difference.
>>>
>>> Based on this publicly available information, there are enough technical
>>> defenses Ruto can raise and defeat the case against him. If Ruto is
>>> acquitted, one can take it to the bank that Uhuru must also be acquitted
>>> in
>>> his own trial, if any.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily because he has the same defenses, but primarily because
>>> a
>>> conviction of a sitting president when all but one of his other
>>> co-accused
>>> have been acquitted or their cases dropped would be virtually
>>> impossible.
>>> This is true regardless of what evidence there may be against him.
>>>
>>> Put another way, the ICC must convict both Uhuru and Ruto or they must
>>> acquit both. They cannot convict one and acquit the other for doing so
>>> will
>>> have far graver consequences than we had in PEV and nobody in their
>>> right
>>> mind would wish or want that.
>>>
>>> There are those who say the ICC judges will follow the law and evidence
>>> and render a judgment consistent with both. This is a very noble thought
>>> but a manifestation of the highest form of naivete one can fathom.
>>>
>>> The ICC cases against President Uhuru Kenyatta and his deputy do not
>>> present themselves as one where the ICC can mechanically apply the law
>>> to
>>> the facts established and render a judgment devoid of other
>>> considerations.
>>> Far from it.
>>>
>>> The impact or fall-out from such a judgment in Kenya would be something
>>> squarely in the judges' conscience. It would be foolhardy to believe or
>>> think otherwise and in any case, the defense lawyers will be committing
>>> malpractice if they don't make this part of their defense.
>>>
>>> Which brings us to answering the question of the various groups
>>> identified above that define justice differently. How significant are
>>> the
>>> groups and to what extent does their existence have a bearing on the
>>> outcome of these cases?
>>>
>>> In sum, those who would want the suspects tried, convicted and hanged
>>> are
>>> a few thousands directly affected by PEV, especially those who lost
>>> loved
>>> ones. These are the people for whom justice must be had one way or
>>> another.
>>>
>>> Those aligned with them who would not necessarily want the suspects to
>>> be
>>> hanged but punished in some form comprise, those who don't care about
>>> PEV
>>> victims but would love to exact some revenge against the defendants for
>>> one
>>> reason or another.
>>>
>>> Those who believe no justice can be had at the ICC because of the
>>> various
>>> flaws in the process and those leaning in their direction comprise the
>>> remainder of the country.
>>>
>>> Given it is unlikely neither Uhuru nor Ruto will be convicted in The
>>> Hague, one can rightly conclude that those directly affected by PEV,
>>> especially those who lost loved ones and are therefore longing for the
>>> hanging of the suspects, will not have their version of justice
>>> delivered.
>>>
>>> Neither will those salivating at the prospect of the suspects being
>>> thrown in jail have their version of justice delivered. Rather, let the
>>> cases be brought home, try those who the police say they have evidence
>>> and
>>> otherwise find a solution to compensate the victims and bring closure to
>>> this sad saga in our country's history.
>>> Peace, Unity and Truth
>>>
>>> Omwenga
>>>
>>> --
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Samuel N. Omwenga, Esq.
>> President and CEO
>> TGICC USA, Inc <http://www.kitsana.com>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Samuel N. Omwenga, Esq.
> President and CEO
> TGICC USA, Inc <http://www.kitsana.com>
>
> **********
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