Tuesday 9 October 2012

Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal

Kulinda mipaka yetu ni jukumu la sisi wote na hakuna anayebisha katika
hilo. Ila hili la kutanguliza vita kama suluhu ya tatizo ni
ku-undermine tatizo lenyewe. Kuweka msisitizo kutumia njia ya maongezi
ni busara ya kawaida tu. Kwamba ni wazungu hao hao ambao watanyonya
raslimali zetu iwe tokea upande wetu au Malawi. Cha kufanya ni
kujitahidi kumaliza tatizo hili kwa njia ya maongezi mpaka hapo
itakapokuwa lazima sana kutumia nguvu. Mimi naona wakati wa kutumia
nguvu bado. Hizo silaha tunazotegemea kuzitumia ni za kununuliwa nje
kwa dola nyingi na tukumbuke kwamba kupigana vita si lele mama kuna
damu za watu zitapotea. Hawa pia ni raslimali ya nchi kama ilivyo gesi
na vingine. Uharibifu unaotokea wakati wa vita unaweza kuwa wa hatari
zaidi na wa kutisha, ikawa ni tatizo la vizazi na vizazi.

Tunapotoa mifano ya enzi za mlm Nyerere, tujaribu pia kuangalia na
kulinganisha siasa na uchumi wa wakati huo na leo. Ni nyakati tofauti
na mambo yake ni tofauti, njia zilizotumika wakati ule na leo pia
zinatakiwa kuwa tofauti naomba tusikariri majibu katika mitihani
isiyofanana. Enzi hizo kulikuwa na siasa za magharibi na mashariki leo
siasa hizo hakuna. Masharti ya kununua au kukopa silaha na baadaye
kulipa ni tofauti na enzi hizo

Wanachofanya wazungu ni kutupambanisha ili tupigane na baadaye twende
kuomba misaada kwa gharama ya juu zaidi. Kweli ni tatizo lakini si
jambo la kukurupuka na kubeba mizinga na vifaru. Na kwamba tunalo
jeshi na uzoefu wa kuwapiga wabaya wetu basi tulianzishe. Someni alama
za nyakati ndugu zangu. Je tukiingia kwenye vita kichwa kichwa
tukapigwa ndo baadaye tuchukue hatua ya mazungumzo au tufanyeje?
Kwenye kupigana lolote laweza kutokea. Tusijifanye tunaijua nguvu ya
adui vilivyo, pamoja na kutumia silaha kupigana pia kunahusisha akili
si nguvu tu, waweza kuwa na nguvu na bado ukapigwa

2012/10/9 Willy Makundi <wrlmakundi@aol.com>:
> Bart mie naona nyie au ni wana diplomasia au wanasiasa wazuri. Ndugu zetu
> wanaosema sijui vita mbaya, sijui hatuna uhakika wa kushinda, naona
> Waingereza wangewaita ni wet around the ears.
>
> Ukweli ni kuwa nchi na maslahi yake zina-exist kwa kuwepo na credible threat
> of war. Ndio maana kila nchi ina majeshi. Mwamulenge sio msusi, sio seremala
> ni mtaalamu wa kudhibiti na kuua adui atakayehatarisha usalama, maisha, na
> mali za Watanzania kutoka nje ya nchi na kwa hilo kafunzwa, kahitimu na
> kaapa. Kazi ya amiri jeshi mkuu ya kwanza ni kuongoza nchi kwenye lengo hilo
> la ulinzi na usalama. Hizi za kutuhamasisha lkulima mahindi na karafuu sio
> za msingi.
>
> Askari wanapoapa kulinda mipaka ya taifa wanaonyeshwa hiyo mipaka. Anayevuka
> hapo na sio kapotea njia atachapwa. That is geopolitics. Nchi haziogopi vita
> ndio maana zinatumia mabilioni kujiandaa kwa vita. Malawi wakivuka mpaka
> tutawapiga na kwa uhakika hawawezi kutushinda hata wangekuwa ni Wamarekani.
> Watatupiga, tutashindwa tutarudi nyuma, tutajipanga upya tuta jibu mapigo,
> watatushinda tutarudia zoezi hili hata kwa miaka mia lakini mwisho
> tutashinda kwa sababu nchi ni yetu and it is a just war. Wababe wa
> Kimarekani ndivyo waliposhindwa Vietnam, Iraq na ndivyo wanashindwa
> Afghanistan.
>
> Kama unasema wale wanaoshupalia kujiandaa kuwachapa Wamalawi ni war mongers
> na wakawe mstari wa mbele ni kutojua katiba ya nchi na sera na mikakati ya
> ulinzi wa taifa. Amiri jeshi akiamua leo kuwa tuko vitani na Malawi basi
> mikakati na mbinu ndio zitaamua nani awe mstari wa mbele lini, na Magobe
> anaweza akapelekwa kwanza (canon fodder). Kwenye vita za kisasa hakuna
> mstari wa mbele. Wajibu wa kuilinda nchi hii ni ya wananchi wote, sehemu
> yoyote walipo.
>
> If you fear war you are in the wrong planet. Uamuzi wa vita uko mikononi mwa
> yule anayedhulumu haki ya watu. Sisi milele tutatetea haki yetu and the
> sooner Ms Banda knows this the less a chance for war.
>
> mchilyi7.0
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bart Mkinga <bmkinga@yahoo.com>
> To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2012, 10:45
> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>
> Magobe, unachotaka kusema ni kuwa tuwaache Wamalawi au jirani yetu yeyote
> achukue sehemu yoyote ya Tanzania akitaka? Ni nani anayejenga mazingira ya
> vita, ni yule anayekualika kwenye mazungumzo au yule ambaye hataki kwenda
> kwenye meza ya mazungumzo na anaendelea na taratibu za kuchukua sehemu ya
> nchi yako?
>
> Vita huwa ni last option kwa yeyote mwenye busara, mara nyingi njia nzuri ya
> kupata suluhisho la tatizo lolote ni mazungumzo, lakini kuna wakati
> mazingira hulazimisha njia zote mbili ili kupata suluhu, hasa pale ambapo
> upande mmoja unapokuwa hautaki mazungumzo. Sidhani kama Amiri Jeshi Mkuu
> anaweza kuamrisha vita kama kuna njia nyingine zinazoweza kufanya kazi
> lakini ndugu zetu Wamalawi ni lazima wafahamu kuwa Tanzania ipo tayari
> kutumia njia nyingine zozote zinazowezekana kuhakikisha hakuna ardhi ya
> Tanzania inayoweza kupokonywa endapo kama hawataki mazungumzo.
>
> Kama Malawi wakishikilia kuwa hawataki mazungumzo, options nyingine ni zipi?
> Na kama Wamalawi waking'ang'ania na yale madai yao ya awali kuwa sehemu zote
> za mwambao wa Ziwa nyasa, na wilaya ya Ludewa ni sehemu ya Malawi, tutakaa
> tu kimya kwa vile hatutaki vita? Mkumbuke Banda mwanzoni mwa miaka ya 70
> alipiga mabomu mpaka eneo la Liganga (alipojua kuwa kuna madini ya chuma),
> akidai ni sehemu ya Malawi. Tukiwa wadogo, tuliwaona askari wa Tanzania
> wakienda kuwaondosha askari wa Malawi kutoka maeneo ya mwambao wa Ziwa.
> Tunafahamu ujasiri wa Mwalimu ndiyo iliyoyafanya maeneo yote ya kusini na
> kanda ya Ziwa ya Tanzania kuendelea kuwa mikononi mwa Tanzania.
>
> Hawa wasuluhishi, sheria za kimataifa na taasisi zake, vinafanya kazi endapo
> tu nchi zilizo na mgogoro zinapenda kumaliza migogoro kwa njia ya amani
> lakini kama mmojawapo akiwa hataki, mazungumzo huwa hayafanyi kazi. Kuingia
> katika vita is the worst option, kila mmoja anajua hilo, lakini utafanya
> nini kama nchi nyingine kwa makusudi inaamua kumega eneo la nchi nyingine?
>
> Wakati ule Amini alipoliteka eneo la Kagera, Umoja wa Mataifa, OAU, na
> taasisi nyingine za kimataifa zilisema nini na zilifanya nini? Kama unataka
> kutegemea sana vyombo vya kimataifa ambavyo kinadharia vinatakiwa kumaliza
> migogoro, nenda kajifunze DRC. Jumuiya ya kimataifa inajua kuwa baadhi ya
> nchi majirani wanaitumia sehemu ya ardhi ya Kongo kadiri wapendavyo, ikiwa
> ni pamoja na kuwaua wakazi wa maeneo hayo, ubakaji, uporaji wa mali, n.k.
> je, Jumuiya ya kimataifa na wasuluhishi wamefanya nini? Ukiona Jumuiya ya
> kimataifa inatuma majeshi kwenda kulinda watu katika nchi fulani, basi ujue
> tayari kuna maelfu ya watu wamekwishateketea. Ulinzi wa uhakika wa mipaka ya
> nchi, unatokana na Taifa husika, wala si wasuluhishi au jamii ya kimataifa.
> Jamii ya kimataifa na wasuluhishi huwa na msaada mkubwa pale ambapo kila
> upande katika mgogoro unaamini katika suluhisho la mazungumzo, na wanaamini
> kuwa hakuna anayeweza kushinda kwa kutumia nguvu. Wamalawi kwa kukataa
> mazungumzo, dhamira yao ni nini? je, ina maana wanaamini kuwa Tanzania haina
> uwezo wa kufanya chochote kutetea mipaka yake? Kama miaka yote ziwa hilo
> limekuwa likitumiwa na nchi mbili kwa usawa, leo ni nini kilichowapa kiburi
> ghafla na kuona ni la kwao? Kama wana sababu ya msingi kwa nini hawajaanza
> na mazungumzo kuliko kulala na kuamka na kisha kutamka kuwa Ziwa lote ni
> mali ya Malawi?
>
> Tanzania, kama ilivyokwishasema kipaumbele cha utatuzi wa mgogoro huu ni
> mazungumzo LAKINI ni muhimu kujiandaa kwa njia nyingine zozote endapo Malawi
> itaendelea kutotaka mazungumzo, na hivyo kuendelea na maumuzi yake juu ya
> umilki wa Ziwa, na nadhani ikifanikiwa kulichukua ziwa bila bughdha, ni
> lazima Malawi itakuja na madai ya Kamuzi Banda ya miaka ya 70 kuwa wilaya ya
> Mbinga na Ludewa ni sehemu ya Malawi. Sisi wakazi wa maeneo hayo hatupo
> tayari kuona au tulichukuliwa kwa nguvu kuwa raia wa Malawi au ardhi yetu
> ikichukuliwa na kwenda Malawi. Lakini sababu siyo hiyo tu, ukweli ni kwamba,
> kama Watanzania, hatuwezi kukubali ardhi ya Tanzania kuchukuliwa na nchi
> nyingine yeyote kwa sababu tu nchi hiyo imeamua kufanya hivyo.
>
> Bart
>
> From: "hkigwangalla@gmail.com" <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>
> Magobe, acha uoga. Hoja zako zimekosa mantiki kabisa maana umeshindwa hata
> kuona kwamba Tanzania inataka mazungumzo na juzi hapa umemsikia Waziri Membe
> akisema wao wanaendelea na kuandaa delegation kwa ajili ya mazungumzo na
> kwamba wanapanga awepo mediator miongoni mwa marais wastaafu kutokea nchi
> hizi za SADC, lakini vile vile utakuwa umeona kwamba Malawi hawajawa tayari
> kuendelea na mazungumzo, wameanza kututukana na kisha wamesema wanaruhusu
> meli za utafiti wa mafuta ziingie kuendelea na kazi zao ziendelee kwenye
> ziwa lote! Hivi hapo hoja yako ni nini haswa, ama unatupotezea muda tu? Eti
> tuyaache haya mambo kwa sasa...kivipi brother? Nilikuwa nakuheshimu sana
> lakini sasa unanifanya nikutazame kwa jicho la mashaka...
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Vodacom Tanzania
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
> Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 11:12:07
> To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>
> War is like a contagious disease. Ikishaingia ndani ya nchi (kama
> ugonjwa unavyomshika mtu) hujui itatoka lini. Ndugu zangu, wanabidii,
> mnalijua hili! Binafsi, suluhu ya jambo hili ni mazungumzo tu (this is
> the only option, my colleagues).
>
> In other words, mazungumzo yakishindikana kwa sasa tuyaahirishe ili
> kujifikiria upya na huenda hapo baadaye tukapa suluhu nzuri kuliko
> kusema mazungumzo yakishidikana basi vita ndiyo itakuwa 'last resort'.
> Hata hizo sheria za kimataifa anazosema Matinyi kuhusu vita zinatoa
> mwongozo tu na siyo kulazimisha nchi kuingia vita kama nchi husika
> haioni bado sababu ya kufanya hivyo (kama ilivyo Tanzania ninayoishi
> mimi). Kwani, tukiingia vita ni nchi gani itashinda na ni atashindwa
> kati yetu na Malawi maana hata hii ni 'requirement' katika kuigana
> vita?
>
>
> Tukitaka vita ianze kututafuna na kutumaliza, tuipigane - "hapo ndipo
> kutakuwa na kulia na kusaga meno"!
>
> On 10/9/12, Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bart,
>>
>> Natumai wewe mwenye undakuwa wa kwanza leo asubuhi kujiandikisha
>> jeshini. Si kuwatuma vijana kutoka jamii masikini kwenda vitani ambapo
>> wewe umekaa Hilton Hote Dalislaam.
>>
>> Courage
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/9/12, Bart Mkinga <bmkinga@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hakuna binadamu mwenye busara anayependa vita lakini kwa nini vita
>>> vimekuwepo wakati wote wa historia ya Dunia? Ni kwa sababu kuna wakati
>>> hakuna namna nyingine yeyote inayoonekana kumaliza tatizo, na kuzidi
>>> kukaa
>>> kimya wakati fulani huzidi kuongeza tatizo.
>>>
>>> Hatukupenda kupigana na Amin lakini kuacha kupigana kulikuwa kunamfanya
>>> Amin
>>> azidi kusonge mbele na kuchukua maeneo mengine, huku akizidi kujiimarisha
>>> ndani ya ardhi ya Tanzania.
>>>
>>> Hatukupenda kupigana na Malawi/Banda, lakini Banda alitwaa ziwa Nyasa na
>>> baada ya kulitwaa Ziwa Nyasa aliingia maeneo ya Mbambabay (Mbinga) na
>>> Manda
>>> kule Ludewa, akatangaza kuwa ni sehemu ya Nyasaland. Kwenye mazingira
>>> hayo,
>>> utafanya nini? Je, itakuwa ni busara kusema kuwa tusipigane kwa sababu
>>> vita
>>> ni mbaya? Hakukuwa na namna nyingine zaidi ya kumpiga banda, boti zake za
>>> kivita zikazamishwa, na askari wake wakakimbia kurudi Nyasaland, kukawa
>>> na
>>> amani mpaka leo.
>>>
>>> Unafanya mazungumzo na anayetaka mazungumzo. Huwezi kufanya mazungumzo na
>>> asiyetaka, na anayetumia nguvu kutwaa eneo la nchi yako. Malawi
>>> wamealikwa
>>> kwenye meza ya mazungumzo, wamekataa. Hawajakataa tu bali sasa wanasema
>>> wameruhusu tena kampuni za utafiti wa mafuta na gas kuendelea kufanya
>>> utafiti ndani ya ziwa lote la Nyasa, sasa Tanzania itafanya nini? Hakuna
>>> namna nyingine zaidi ya kuhakikisha kuwa hawaingii katika maji ya
>>> Tanzania,
>>> maana ni aheri vita kupiganwa mpakani kuliko kupiganwa ndani ya ardhi
>>> yako.
>>>
>>> Jukumu kuu la kwanza la serikali yeyote na jeshi lake ni kulinda mipaka
>>> ya
>>> nchi, na hicho ndicho kiapo cha kila askari na kila Rais. Ni katika
>>> kulinda
>>> mipaka ya nchi, askari huapa na kuweka wazi kuwa yupo tayari kuifia nchi
>>> yake. Rais yeyote Duniani anajua hakuna jambo sensitive kwa Taifa lolote
>>> kama kutaka kubadilisha mipaka ya nchi, na anayetaka kubadilisha mpaka wa
>>> nchi anajua kuwa anazua tatizo kubwa kabisa la kiusalama.
>>>
>>> Kwa sasa jeshi la Tanzania halina namna yeyote ile iwayo zaidi ya kukaa
>>> tayari kwa hali yeyote ile kama Malawi itaamua kubadilisha mpaka kwa
>>> nguvu,
>>> na kufanya hivyo ni kuishi na kutenda kadiri ya kiapo. Japo hatujaambiwa,
>>> nina hakika JWTZ litakakuwa tayari limejiandaa kwa hali yeyote
>>> itakayolazimu. Amiri Jeshi Mkuu ni lazima atakuwa ameyaandaa majeshi kwa
>>> ulinzi wa ardhi ya Tanzania. Kubadilisha mipaka ya Tanzania siyo suala
>>> dogo,
>>> na JK pekee yake hana uwezo wa kufanya hivyo maana aliapa kulinda ardhi
>>> na
>>> mipaka ya Tanzania kwaajili ya kizazi cha sasa na vingi vijavyo.
>>>
>>> Tofauti za siasa zetu za ndani haziwezi kupunguza chochote kwenye umoja
>>> wetu
>>> katika kulinda na kutetea ardhi na rasilimali za nchi yetu dhidi ya
>>> mataifa
>>> mengine.
>>>
>>> Bart
>>>
>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: Tony PT <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 8:49 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>
>>>>Mngonge,
>>>>
>>>>Kumbuka historia ya mgogoro huu! Wakati ulipoibuka miaka ya sabini Malawi
>>>> iliweka boti tatu kusisitiza madai yake; boti hizo zilizamishwa kwa
>>>> mizinga na tangu hapo Malawi wakakaa kimya hadi leo tena wanalizua hili.
>>>>
>>>>Hata wawe na kigogo nyuma yake, sioni sababu: kwenye hali ya sasa nchi
>>>> kupata usaidizi lazima iwe na strategic importance kwa huyo kigogo. Sasa
>>>> Malawi haina bahari, sio mapito ya meli za wakubwa, haina madini muhimu,
>>>> inapitwa na Congo, na pia haina manufaa yoyote ya kimaslahi kwa wakubwa.
>>>> Actually, kama ni mafuta, au madini yapo pia tanzania.
>>>>
>>>>Kwa kuzingatia historia ya mgogoro, expansionism ndicho kinachoonekana
>>>> kwa
>>>> Malawi na huwezi kuendesha sera za kujitanua kama huna nguvu za kijeshi,
>>>> uzoefu wa kupigana/matatizo kama Eritrea, Uganda, Rwanda na pia kama
>>>> hauna
>>>> rasilimali watu.
>>>>
>>>>Kulinda mipaka unayochukua kwa nguvu inahitaji rasilimali nyingi. Mfano
>>>> meli za kivita pekee haziwezi kulinda mipaka, pia ndege peke yake.
>>>> Unahitaji vyote airforce, jeshi la majini, na nchi kavu! Pia inahitaji
>>>> nyenzo za kuvumilia vita kama uchumi bora na uwezo wa kuhimili matatizo
>>>> baada ya vita.
>>>>
>>>>Ilichukua miaka 15 kwa Tz kuteseka kijamii, na kiuchumi baada ya vita vya
>>>> Uganda. Malawi sidhani kama wana hata chembe ya uzoefu ukiacha ulinzi wa
>>>> amani (policing) wa kimataifa ambako active combat hakuna. Lakini pia Tz
>>>> walipigana mozambique, Zimbabwe, Angola, Sycheles, Comoro na kuwepo
>>>> kwenye
>>>> ulinzi wa amani chini ya kofia za bluu.
>>>>
>>>>Huenda Malawi wanatafuta kukong'otwa tena kidogo ili wakae kimya for
>>>> another 20 yrs or so. Tz naona wanahangaika hata kuzungumzia hili kama
>>>> kupoteza muda wao! Wangeendelea na kazi zao na wasubiri Malawi alete
>>>> boti
>>>> tena, zizamishwe na wakae kimya.
>>>>
>>>>Hao wanaotafuta mafuta kwenye disputed areas wajinga tu kwani hasara zake
>>>> ni kubwa kuliko faida. Tunaweza kuwaacha wakajenga offshore rig na
>>>> ikakamilika tunapeleka vijana wa kazi na payload ya mabomu na
>>>> kusambaratisha! Kwa vile ni ukwekezaji kwenye hot spot, bima yake kubwa
>>>> na
>>>> watapewa somo moja tu na hawatarudia tena!
>>>>Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
>>>>Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: mngonge <mngonge@gmail.com>
>>>>Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:21:41
>>>>To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>
>>>>Kigwangalla & colleagues
>>>>
>>>>Naungana na nyinyi kwamba katika utata uliopo kuhusu mipaka ya
>>>>Tanzania na Malawi muafaka utafikiwa kwa njia ya mazungumzo tu sioni
>>>>namna nyingine zaidi ya hiyo. Endapo Malawi watakataa kata kata
>>>>kulimaliza kwa mazungumzo basi itatubidi tuende kwenye vyombo vya
>>>>usuluhishi na wala si vita. Kwanza tuna uhakika gani kwamba hakuna
>>>>vigogo walio nyuma ya Malawi?
>>>>
>>>>Tusifikiri tunalo Jeshi la kuipiga kila nchi, tunaweza kuanza kutumia
>>>>nguvu na tukapigwa sijui aibu itakuwa ya nani. Huo uhakika wa kwamba
>>>>tutawapiga sijui tunaupata wapi? Hadi yule mama aamue kudai huo mpaka
>>>>lazima kuna kitu nyuma ya pazia. Wahenga walisema namna pekee ya
>>>>kuishinda vita ni kuiepuka. Ukiishaingia vitani hakuna kushinda bali
>>>>ni kuumia tu (the only way we can win a war is to avoid it).
>>>>
>>>>Hatuna sababu ya kutumia nguvu bali ni njia za diplomasia, kwa kubase
>>>>kwenye treaty ya 1890 Malawi wangekuwa wamekalia ziwa zima tangu huko
>>>>nyuma. Haya ndo matunda ya wakoloni kujigawia Afrika kama wayaudi
>>>>walivyogawana vazi la Yesu baada ya kumuua. Bila kuwa makini na kuwa
>>>>na viongozi wenye vision na uzalendo na Afrika hawa jamaa wataendelea
>>>>kuigawa Afrika wanavyotaka. Nahisi kuna ka harufu ka uchonganishi toka
>>>>kwa hao hao waliojigawia Afrika vipande vipande tangu miaka hiyo
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:18 AM, <hkigwangalla@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Magobe, umeishiwa sasa maskini, unatia huruma. Unachokisema ndiyo
>>>>> msingi
>>>>> wa hoja zetu wengi hapa. Kwamba tunawaita mezani wamalawi ikishindikana
>>>>> kuelewana tunasema wasisogee upande wetu wa ziwa na mpaka sasa
>>>>> tumeishaimarisha ulinzi wakisogea tu bila ridhaa yetu tunatandika,
>>>>> wakijibu shambulizi tu tunaingia vitani! Huu ndiyo mtiririko wa jinsi
>>>>> kazi itakavyoenda kuanzia sasa...
>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Vodacom Tanzania
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Telesphor Magobe <tmagobe@gmail.com>
>>>>> Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 23:04:27
>>>>> To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Wanaodhani kushabikia vita kama suluhu ya mgogoro wa mpaka wa ziwa
>>>>> Nyasa kati ya Tanzania na Malawi ndiyo uzalendo wanajidanganya na
>>>>> wanawadanganya pia wanaosoma maoni yao!
>>>>> 2. Kama kuna kuchagua, katika kupata suluhu ya jambo fulani, kati ya
>>>>> mazungumzo ya amani/kusuluhishwa kisheria au kirafiki na vita, na mtu
>>>>> akionesha kupenda vita ili kupata suluhu, basi mtu huyo anaweza akawa
>>>>> ni 'suicidal case'.
>>>>> 3. Amiri Jeshi Mkuu alishatoa tamko kuwa ni "yeye ndiye anayesaini ili
>>>>> vita ipiganwe na kamwe hakutatokea vita kama suluhu ya mgogoro kati
>>>>> yetu na Malawi" na akashauri "uchochezi unaofanywa na baadhi ya
>>>>> wanasiasa na waandishi wa habari upuuzwe."
>>>>> 4. Hata mimi sioni: i) kama kuna haja ya vita ili kupata suluhu ii)
>>>>> maana inawezekana kupata suluhu bila vita iii) kwa hiyo, kung'ang'ania
>>>>> kuwe na vita katika kupata suluhu ni kuonesha tu ubabe usio na maana
>>>>> yoyote.
>>>>> 6. Wapenda maendeleo ya nchi na ustawi wa watu wao vita si sehemu ya
>>>>> utamaduni wao.
>>>>> 7. Kama kuna kitu kinaitwa uzalendo, tukioneshe katika: kutetea haki
>>>>> za wanyonge (kutokubali haki ipindishwe kwa maslahi binafsi), kupiga
>>>>> vita rushwa na ufisadi, kupiga vita uporaji wa ardhi, kukemea mauaji
>>>>> ya raia wasio na hatia, kupunguza au kuondoa umaskini Tanzania,
>>>>> kuboresha huduma za jamii, kulinda mali ya umma, kutoiba kura wakati
>>>>> wa uchaguzi na kupata suluhu ya mgogoro wetu na Malawi kwa njia ya
>>>>> kawaida bila kumwaga damu.
>>>>> 8. Kwangu mimi, huu ndio uzalendo maana vita inaharibu yote haya kwani
>>>>> issue ya mpaka haijashindikana. Je, ni kwa nini tuanze kufikiria vita
>>>>> wakati hatuja'exhaust all options?'
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/8/12, Said Issa <saidissa100@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Courage,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I am with you brother!
>>>>>> Substitute the Z with a G and a solution is there!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ....bin Issa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 8, 2012 8:21:05 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heheheheheheheeee!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Said,
>>>>>> Sometimes problems have no solution and then suddenly the best
>>>>>> solution comes out of a very unlikely place. the idea of Tanzalawi or
>>>>>> Tangalawi may be laughable now but is a very legitimate and easiest
>>>>>> way out of this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Courage
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/8/12, Said Issa <saidissa100@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Maurice,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A very far-fetched solution would be for TZ and Malawi to form a
>>>>>>>> union>to
>>>>>>>> become the United Republic of Tanzalawi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am fascinated by your far-fetched solution. If you will agree with
>>>>>>> Bw.
>>>>>>> Makundi,
>>>>>>> then, please, call the Union as Tangalawi and NOT Tanzalawi!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ....bin Issa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 8, 2012 5:41:02 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Willy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please don't read me wrong. I think someone made a terrible mistake
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> alloting the whole lake to Malawi. Tanzania has a legitimate claim
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> half of the lake because the people around Ruvuma and Iringa derive
>>>>>>> their livelihoods from the lake. It would be unnatural for the
>>>>>>> ppeople
>>>>>>> there to be denied the use of the lake.
>>>>>>> But that aside; existing legal scenario is that Malawi owns the lake.
>>>>>>> The only way out of this situation is a political settlement in which
>>>>>>> Malawi cedes half of the lake in exchange for something. I have
>>>>>>> suggested a passage to the sea and I think that is doable if TZ is
>>>>>>> willing.
>>>>>>> War is definitely not an option.
>>>>>>> A very far-fetched solution would be for TZ and Malawi to form a
>>>>>>> union
>>>>>>> to become the United Republic of Tanzalawi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Courage,
>>>>>>> Oduor Maurice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/8/12, Willy Makundi <wrlmakundi@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> The people living on the eastern and northern shores of the lake
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>> had the right of use of the lake, primarily for water, food and
>>>>>>>> transit
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> to the median line roughly parallel to the shoreline. The oil and
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> mineral deposits is a recent discovery. Kamuzus claim was actually
>>>>>>>> NOT
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> only the lake but also the whole of Ruvuma and Iringa, so you know
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> fair understanding of their preposterous claims.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have a case for other lakes or rivers please feel free to
>>>>>>>> petition
>>>>>>>> with those responsible, be it Tanzanians, EAC, AU, ICJ or the UN.
>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> sure you know that the case of Lake Victoria is a ruse for diverting
>>>>>>>> attention from Ms Banda's claim for all of Lake Malawi.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While you are at it, why dont you just claim all of Lake Victoria -
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> borrow a leaf from Ms Banda's book?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mchilyi7.0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Oct 8, 2012 12:04 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Willy,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is Tanzania now aggressively going after half of the Lake because of
>>>>>>>> the potential for oil under there?
>>>>>>>> Then I think Kenya should fight to get more of Lake Victoria. Right
>>>>>>>> now Kenya owns only 6% while TZ and Uganda share the remaining 94%.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Courage
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/8/12, Willy Makundi <wrlmakundi@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ndugu HK, let them know that we are fully aware that they are
>>>>>>>>> backed
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> those who eye the potential fossil deposits of the 600 km long Lake
>>>>>>>>> Malawi
>>>>>>>>> (which may rival the oil deposits of Lake Albert in Uganda - now
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> compared by the Americans to those of Saudi Arabia). Tell them that
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> the stakes are high.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Be that as it may, the right of Tanzanians and Malawians to use the
>>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>> and other resources of the Lake to the median line is God given and
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> never, nor can it be taken away from the Wamandas the Nyakyusa the
>>>>>>>>> Matengo
>>>>>>>>> or the Wanyasa who have been dependent on the lake from time
>>>>>>>>> immemorial
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> far back as when there was no such thing as a Germany or even a
>>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>>> Kingdom.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whether Ms Banda is being used or supported by UK or the Americans
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> others, our rights to our half of the lake will never be
>>>>>>>>> permanently
>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>> away by declaration or use of force, not by Malawi, not by UK, not
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> ICJ
>>>>>>>>> NOT by any power on earth. For this right we will be in a permanent
>>>>>>>>> state
>>>>>>>>> vigilance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let it be known that if Tanzania would try to claim all the lake
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> ourselves, I would fight that position just the same and would
>>>>>>>>> stand
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> Malawi to claim their own half of the Lake till kingdom comes. A
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> shall never be denied their natural right to proximal water and the
>>>>>>>>> resources there in. Its unnatural and unconscionable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mchilyi7.0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: hkigwangalla <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Oct 8, 2012 11:24 am
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maurice, I am of the opinion that is similar to Matinyi's and have
>>>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I will volunteer to go to the frontline if it reaches to that, and
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> many Tanzanians are ready for that, only if it means defending our
>>>>>>>>> borders,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dignity and respect! Trust me bro, Malawi is not even an inch close
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> Amin's
>>>>>>>>> Uganda in terms of budget or even size of the force, let them
>>>>>>>>> continue
>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>> uchokozi wao, na watakiona cha mtema kuni! Sisi hatupigi kelele
>>>>>>>>> wala
>>>>>>>>> propaganda,
>>>>>>>>> tunawasubiri mezani kwanza, wasipotokea tutawasubiri waingilie
>>>>>>>>> mpaka
>>>>>>>>> wetu,
>>>>>>>>> hapo
>>>>>>>>> ndipo watasikia mapigo yetu, mpaka sasa tumeshaimarisha ulinzi
>>>>>>>>> kwenye
>>>>>>>>> mipaka
>>>>>>>>> ya
>>>>>>>>> upande wetu wa ziwa! Waambie wachokoze sasa waone!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> HK!
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Vodacom Tanzania
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 17:39:30
>>>>>>>>> To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Matinyi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are someone I respect and I don't expect war language from you.
>>>>>>>>> You're someone people listen to on these fora so una wajibu fulani.
>>>>>>>>> Usichochee ovyo ukatuanzia vita kati ya Tz na Malawi, vita isiyo na
>>>>>>>>> maana wala mantiki.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You should be talking about a political solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Courage
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/6/12, matinyi@hotmail.com <matinyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Maurice,
>>>>>>>>>> You need to know some historical facts of this conflict, and a
>>>>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> who started the fire now.
>>>>>>>>>> Secondly, when two countries fight, it is not a battle between
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> leaders
>>>>>>>>>> but armies, air force, etc. This was Amin's thinking and has
>>>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> with our decision or view then, now, and tomorrow. So, if
>>>>>>>>>> necessary,
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> attack them and either kill Joyce or capture her unless she runs
>>>>>>>>>> away
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> Amin. Trust me.
>>>>>>>>>> Matinyi.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Maurice Oduor" <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, Oct 6, 2012 2:46 pm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Matinyi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've always respected you as a formidable debater but hapa kaka
>>>>>>>>>> nawe
>>>>>>>>>> umeanza kuteleza kidogo. You're making a false comparison. Migingo
>>>>>>>>>> Island issue is not in the same category as this Lake Nyasa issue.
>>>>>>>>>> There's no Treaty that ever granted Migingo to Uganda. Infact all
>>>>>>>>>> existing maps and Agreements show the island as bwlonging to
>>>>>>>>>> Kenya.
>>>>>>>>>> The only reason Migingo is an issue is that Kibaki does not care
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> it because it only conveniences Luos, a tribe he has no regard
>>>>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>>>>> Museveni knows that and is taking advantage. Once Raila takes the
>>>>>>>>>> presidency, you wont even see any sign of Uganda on that island.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lakini this Lake Nyasa issue is more complicated because over
>>>>>>>>>> history,
>>>>>>>>>> there have been several conflicting pacts and agreements over it.
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> 2 countries need to sit down with an independent 3rd party and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> negotiated settlement. If Tz goes to war over this, Tz will not
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>> get a black eye for beating up on a woman president, it will
>>>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>> an international pariah.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mie nakupa wasia kama jirani mwema.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Courage,
>>>>>>>>>> Oduor Maurice
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/6/12, matinyi@hotmail.com <matinyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Maurice,
>>>>>>>>>>> How about this, let Kenya take Migingo, and offer Uganda a
>>>>>>>>>>> passage
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> sea, then we will follow suit.
>>>>>>>>>>> Matinyi.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Maurice Oduor" <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters reveal
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, Oct 6, 2012 12:35 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are providing a wrong comparison. In other words, you're
>>>>>>>>>>> advancing
>>>>>>>>>>> a false argument. The comparison to eyes and arms does not fit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> International norms now recommend that water bodies such as
>>>>>>>>>>> Nyasa,
>>>>>>>>>>> Tanganyika and Victoria be shared equally between the associated
>>>>>>>>>>> countries. That is how Canada and US now share the Great Lakes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But the fact is that Lake Nyasa legally belongs to Malawi for
>>>>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> best outcome here would be that the Lake is shared equally
>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>> Tz
>>>>>>>>>>> and Malawi but Malawi is offered something in exchange. A passage
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the sea would be a good offer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Courage
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/6/12, Mike Zunzu <mikezunzu@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you give one of your eye to someone in order to save your
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> chopped off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 8:55
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters
>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Shedrack,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> why don't you guys give Malawii a passage to the sea in exchange
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> part of the lake you're claiming? I think that would be a
>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> mature compromise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Courage
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/6/12, shedrack maximilian
>>>>>>>>>>>> <shedrack_maximilian@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sijui ujinga wa watz uko wapi katika huu mgogoro!? Be specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lakini kuhusu Malawi kudepend Kwa waingereza au yeyote yule
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuhusu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kwamba
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ziwa ni lao mimi naona ni uwezo mdogo wa kufikiri ,Wale wapo tu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuchonganisha mara zote.Wkumbuke kuwa Malawi sawa na Tanzania
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ni
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nchi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> zinazokua na watu wake ni masikini sana na hivyo kusema kweli
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hatuitaji
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutumia pesa kupigana vita ambayo kwa hakika itawaua na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuharibu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mali
>>>>>>>>>>>>> za
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hao
>>>>>>>>>>>>> watu wetu masikini.Kama hawatakaa katika mazungumzo shauri
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yao,Tutaingia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> katika vita ,tutaumizana na mwisho wa siku tutakaa katika meza
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuzungumza
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .wazungu hawataweza kuwasaidia chochote kile na wala hawana
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasilimali
>>>>>>>>>>>>> za
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuwafanya wazungu wasimame upande wao kwasabau wako kwa ajili
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> masilahi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yao.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamani mama Banda utaumiza watu wako jama!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shedrack Maximilian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> B.Sc. Env.Health Science
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bagamoyo District Council, Tanzania
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shedrack_maximilian@yahoo.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +255(0754)944-504
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +255(0715)844-504
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/10/12, Tony PT <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Tony PT <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 3 October, 2012, 7:13
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pius,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sisi waTz huwa mazezeta kwelikweli! Inabidi ifike wakati Kenya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tuwaambie
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuuza mmlima wetu inabidi walipe royalty na tufunge mpaka wote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ili
>>>>>>>>>>>>> watalii
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wakitaka kuja kuona mlima wapitie Uganda au zanzibar au kwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndege!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ujinga wetu ndio umefanya Malawi kujiaminisha kuwa ziwa lote ni
>>>>>>>>>>>>> la
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kwao!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hivi kweli Malawi watasemaje hivyo wakati kuna taarifa ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mabonde
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Great
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lakes Basins), mito na maziwa zinatamka na wao kujua kuwa maji
>>>>>>>>>>>>> karibu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> asilimia 63 yanatoka milima ya Livingston, Lukumburu, njombe,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ludewa,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mbinga, Songea, mito na maji ya mvua ndani ya mipaka ya Tz
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ziwani!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wakileta kichaa sasa tutalichukua ziwa lote, yaani tunabadili
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mipaka
>>>>>>>>>>>>> iwe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> upande wa magharibi mwa ziwa, tuone kama wataona sawa!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leo tunaweza kuanzisha man-made inland lakes upande wa Tz na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ziwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> litanyauka
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kwa asilimia isiyopungua 70. Maana ziwa hilo linapata asilimia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> karibu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 42
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maji ya mito upande wa Tz, 21 ya maji ya mvua ziwani, na 27 ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maji
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mito
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na mvua upande wa malawi!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le
>>>>>>>>>>>>> réseau
>>>>>>>>>>>>> de
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bell.From: Pius Makomelelo <makomelelopius@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 06:45:01 +0100 (BST)To:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com<wanabidii@googlegroups.com>ReplyTo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kwa mtaji huu inabidi tuwe macho hata na hawa watani wetu wa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jadi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanaotumia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> utalii kutanganza mlima Kilimanjaro uko kwao! Yule mama Banda
>>>>>>>>>>>>> katangaza
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasmi kuwa hataki tena mazungumzo! Hana imani na Tanzania. Hana
>>>>>>>>>>>>> imani
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JK
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eti wtz tumezindua ramani mpya na kufukuza wavuvi wamalawi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Katumwa,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sasa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> naona anachotafuta wakati muafaka umefika wa kumpa. Kalewa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> madaraka.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wtz
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tuweni makini, lazima kuna agenda za kikoloni zinatengenezwa.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Banda
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mkubwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alitambulika ukanda wetu huu kama kibaraka. Ni jadi yao hawa,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hatuna
>>>>>>>>>>>>> haja
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kupoteza muda kujadiliana nao! Dawa ya kibaraka ni
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kumshughulikia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kabla
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hata
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hajaota mbawa za kutosha.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Felix Mwakyembe <fkyembe@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 23:29
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ukweli ni kwamba hapa tulipofika tumepatengeza wenyewe kwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuwakubalia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wamalawi katika mambo ya Ziwa hilo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Walianza kwa kubadili jina kutoka jina la asili la Nyasa ambalo
>>>>>>>>>>>>> linajumuisha
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wote wanaopakana na hilo Ziwa na kuliita Malawi wakiengua
>>>>>>>>>>>>> upande
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tanzania, tulikaa kimya na kuwapigia makofi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Walitengeza ramani zenye kuonyesha mpaka kuwa ufukwe wa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tanzania,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nasi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tukazitumia pasipo kuhoji!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malawi walihakikisha kizazi cha sasa kisifahamu lolote kuhusu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jina
>>>>>>>>>>>>> la
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nyasa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na mpaka kuwa katikati ya ziwa, walielewa walichokuwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wakifanya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wakati
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sisi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tukiwa hatuelewi tunataka nini.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imefika wakati Jumuiya za Kimataifa zinatambua hivyo, na hata
>>>>>>>>>>>>> miradi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kiuchumi inayohusu ziwa hilo, wenye kunufaika ni Malawi, kwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> upande
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wetu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hata miradi hukataliwa na taasisi za nje, labda huo mradi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> uhusishe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wamalawi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tumelea wenyewe!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 October 2012 23:19, Dr. Hamisi A. Kigwangalla
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> safi sana, msimamo wangu kwa hakika unafanana na wa kwako, na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kweli
>>>>>>>>>>>>> demokrasia ikishindwa - twende vitani tu tuwatandike nduli hawa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chini
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> uongozi wa yule mama mkaidi anayeitwa Nduli Grace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Mobhare Matinyi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <matinyi@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dkt. Kigwangalla,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Usiwe na shaka, hatutaki vita na tutafanya mazungumzo mpaka
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mwisho,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ikishindikana zitapigwa. Kuna Wakurya kama laki mbili - vijana
>>>>>>>>>>>>> watupt
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hawana kazi baada ya migodi yao ya dhahabu kuporwa na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wawekezaji
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ng'ombe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuibiwa na majambazi; hawa ukitangaza vita watakuja kama mvua,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> achilia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mbali
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tulioko huku majuu, tutarudi wote golini tujazane. Hebu fikiria
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kila
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mkoa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ukitoa vijana wake laki moja wasiokuwa na kazi itakuwaje?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tutawapiga
>>>>>>>>>>>>> washikaji zetu kwa kutembea na miguu na bakora bila bunduki, na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hatumui
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mtu,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ni bakora tupu ila baraa lote la mawaziri tutawachukua tuje nao
>>>>>>>>>>>>> huku
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mjini,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tuwarundike Keko.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mmarekani mmoja, sasa balozi mstaafu baaa ya kulitumikia jeshi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kufanya kazi ya kufundisha Wakenya, aliniambia kwamba wakati
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watanzania
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanaingia Uganda yeye alikuwa kijana mdogo akifanya kazi na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wamisionari..
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anasema miaka yote aliyokuwa jeshini Marekani alikuwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anawakumbuka
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wale
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watanzania jinsi walivyokuwa na nidhamu ya kijeshi na jinsi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walivyowaua
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Walibya. Anasema kwamba rekodi hazisemi ukweli kuwa eti
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walikufa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Waarabu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 600
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tu, anasema Kampala peke yake walizidi 1,000. Anasema
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watanzania
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ni
>>>>>>>>>>>>> habari
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyingine kabisa.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hatutaki vita lakini lazima ziwa tulidhibiti; iwe isiwe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matinyi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:06:28 +0300
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Lake belongs to Malawi, UK letters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: hkigwangalla@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Felix, ninachokumbuka tu ni kwamba nilikula samaki mtamu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anayeitwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mbasa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndizi safi za mbeya...and notable was the way yule samaki na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yule
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuku
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alivyokuwa amechoma...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> utamu wa samaki yule maalum kwa ajili ya wageni wanaokuja kule
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mwambao
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ziwa Nyasa ni yule samaki, na nitakuwa tayari kushiriki vita ya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kulikomboa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lile Ziwa ili wajukuu zangu waendelee kula Mbasa maisha yao
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Felix Mwakyembe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <fkyembe@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hahahahaha, huku note tu pale una kuwa connected Malawi simu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> zote,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiyo
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nawe siku hiyo ulikuwa Malawi!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Felix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 October 2012 22:14, Dr. Hamisi A. Kigwangalla
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mwakyex, nakumbuka voda yangu ilikuwa inashika...ila
>>>>>>>>>>>>> siku-notice
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kingine
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chochote cha ajabu. airtel haikuwa inakamata
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Felix Mwakyembe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <fkyembe@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr Kigwa,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hivi ulipokuwa pale Nduli, Kyela simu zako zilishika net za
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wapi!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Felix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 October 2012 18:19, Dr. Hamisi A. Kigwangalla
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hkigwangalla@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moderator, mfute huyu MMalawi kwenye hili group, anatutia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hasira
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vichefu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chefu hapa. Hana kingine anachochangia zaidi ya Lake Nyasa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tu...nadhani
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anafanya kazi ya kiintelijensia ya kutaka kujua tunasema nini
>>>>>>>>>>>>> na
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tuna
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoja
>>>>>>>>>>>>> zipi kwenye hili suala...ONDOA HUYU HARAKA tafadhali...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuliishasema Tanzania italinda mipaka yake, na tuko tayari kwa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lolote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wakati
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wowote...waache kutuchokonoa chokonoa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Hosea Ndaki
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hosea.ndaki@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hayo mafuta tunaweza tafiti kama joint project kama yapo!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nadhani
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hao
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wavuvi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wa dagaa wanasail bila matata. Mazungumzo pia yalenge
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kuishawishi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> malawi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kujiunga EAC sawa na Burundi na Rwanda wanaweza faidika zaidi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kama kuna economic advantage ya kuwekeza katika meli basi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bakhresa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> au
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Songoro wanaweza wekeza huko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:51 PM, ELISA MUHINGO
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Na meli aliyoahidi Rais ijengwe ianze safari zake kwenye port
>>>>>>>>>>>>> zetu.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mafuta
>>>>>>>>>>>>> waendelee kutafiti ila wsichimbe etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Tue, 10/2/12, Hosea Ndaki <hosea.ndaki@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>
>
>
> --
> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
>
> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha
> ukishatuma
>
> Disclaimer:
> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal
> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be
> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to
> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>
>

--
Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com

Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma

Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.

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