Friday 24 August 2012

Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki, maadili ya bunge

I guess Lissu ana mambo kibao ya kufanya(si tunashuhudia?).Hivyo wiki moja si muda mrefu kikubwa ni nondo za uhakika anazomwaga huku na kule kwa maslahi ya mustakabali wetu

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2012, at 2:20 PM, "Tony PT" <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

TL

Naona sielewi kweli, wewe ndio unaelewa ingawa imekuchukua wiki nzima kujibu (research)!

Haya uendelee salama!
Sent from my BlackBerry® Porsche-9981 smartphone Thru Tigo Network, Tanzania.

From: Tundu Lissu <lissubulali@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 01:55:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki, maadili ya bunge

Tony,

Umerudia kadhaa kwamba 'hufadhiliwa' kutoka nje ya nchi, sio endelevu, etc. Japokuwa husemi in so many words, maana ni kwamba wanaharakati ni watu wanaotumiwa na outside interests kwa maslahi ya hizo interests za nje. Narudia kusema kwamba uelewa wako wa historia ya Western liberal democracies ni shaky sana. Liberal democracies are founded on violent revolutions. Mfano mzuri ni parliamentary democracy ya Uingereza ilivyotokana na, inter alia, 'Mapinduzi Matakatifu' ya mwaka 1688, ya Wafaransa ilitokana na Mapinduzi Makuu ya 1789 na ya Wamarekani ilitokana na Mapinduzi ya 1776 na vita vya uhuru dhidi ya ukoloni wa Waingereza na Civil War ya 1861. Mapinduzi hayo yote yaliweka misingi, kazi ya kuzijenga demokrasia hizo hadi kufikia ziliko leo iliangukia kwenye mabega ya wanaharakati wa aina nyingine: wale waliotumia parliamentary na non-parliamentary politics kuhakikisha haki zinapatikana na demokrasia inapanuka zaidi. Mifano ni mingi na iko karibu katika kila nchi yenye siasa za kibunge. In fact, I dare say, upana au ubora wa demokrasia katika kila nchi unategemea moja kwa moja uthabiti wa uanaharakati katika nchi husika, iwe ndani au nje ya Bunge.

Kuhusu 'fadhila' za nje ya nchi, kama unadhani hiyo inaziondolea legitimacy harakati hizo then narudia kusema tena hujui historia. Wanamapinduzi wa Marekani ya 1776 walinufaika sana kutokana na 'fadhila' za kijeshi na kidiplomasia za Ufaransa ya wakati huo. Wanaharakati wa kupinga utumwa katika Marekani ya kabla na baada ya Civil War walifadhiliwa sana na wanaharakati wa Uingereza (soma maandiko mbali mbali ya Frederick Douglass), n.k. Katika Afrika yetu, harakati za kudai uhuru kutoka kwa wakoloni zilifadhiliwa sana na watu wa nje ya Bara letu. Wamisionari wa Maryknoll Order ya Ireland na New York walimsaidia sana Mwalimu kwenda UN mwaka 1955, Kenyatta alipatiwa mawakili wa Kiingereza wakati wa kesi yake ya Mau Mau, sisi wenyewe tuliwafadhili wapigania uhuru mbali mbali katika miaka ya 70 na 80 na wapinzani wa Serikali za nchi huru ambazo hatukukubaliana nazo kama Malawi ya Banda, Zaire ya Mobutu na Uganda ya Idi Amin. Kwa hiyo kudai, na kurudia rudia, kwamba wanaharakati hufadhiliwa na watu wa nje, n.k. is not being very original about the subject. There's never been anything wrong or strange about that throughout modern history.

Nakubaliana na wewe kwamba Bungeni ni mahali pa hoja na panatawaliwa na kanuni na taratibu za kibunge. Hata hivyo, wewe unadhani kwamba Bungeni sio mahali pa kuibua hoja zinazoonyesha uozo katika mihimili ya dola. Aidha unafikiri kwamba kanuni za Bunge zinakataza mijadala ya aina hiyo. You're badly, if not sadly, mistaken. Erskine May, anayesifika kuwa authority kwenye mila na desturi za mabunge ya Commonwealth ameita Bunge kuwa ni 'grand inquisition' ya taifa, yaani mahali ambapo mijadala ya mambo makubwa yanayolisibu taifa inafanyika na kwa uhuru mkubwa kuliko katika taasisi nyingine yoyote katika nchi. Hiyo ndiyo rationale ya kinga mbali mbali za kibunge. Obviously, watu wa aina yako hamwamini katika hili, mnadhani kwamba Bunge ni mahali pa kufichiana siri na kulindana. Hiyo sio falsafa yangu, na naamini niko sahihi kwa mujibu wa Kanuni za Bunge letu na kwa mujibu wa mila na desturi za kibunge ninazozifahamu.

Tundu.


From: ELISHILIA.D.S KAAYA <kaayashilia@hotmail.com>;
To: Tony PT <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk>; wanabidii@googlegroups.com <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki, maadili ya bunge
Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2012 6:43:16 PM

Naam. Huo ndio uelewa wangu pia! Hapa nilipenda pia ku" underscore" ukweli kwamba uanaharakati mwingine huyeyuka wanapopewa fursa ya kutenda. Ndiyo sababu nimezungumzia uhusiano wa muda,  matendo na maneno! Hapa Tanzania bado tutaona mengi.
Shilia Kaaya

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Vodacom

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony PT <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:32:47
To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki,
maadili ya bunge


Elishilia,

Uanaharakati kama background na haina maana wanauingiza hadi bungeni! Bungeni unatoa hoja, inapingwa na hoja na mwisho kura nyingi zinachukua siku!

Mambo kwisha! Kwenye uanaharakati ukishindwa hoja unaanza kupiga kelele, kuchana bendera, vikaragosi na kuzomea! Bungeni au mahakamani, hayo yanaishia nje ya zulia jekundu!

Sent from my BlackBerry® Porsche-9981 smartphone Thru Tigo Network, Tanzania.

-----Original Message-----
From: "ELISHILIA.D.S KAAYA " <kaayashilia@hotmail.com>
Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:22:04
To: Laurean Rugambwa B.<rugambwa@hotmail.com>; millcent@yahoo.com<millcent@yahoo.com>; wanabidii@googlegroups.com<wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki,
 maadili ya bunge

Hata Jaji Baraza  nae ni mwanaharakati! Ona alichokifanya.Hata hivyo tunasikia atakata rufaa! Muda ndio kipimo cha uadilifu wa kiongozi. Wingi wa maneno husalitiwa na  matendo. Tutoe fursa kwa maneno kupimwa na  matendo kupitia mizani iitwayo muda.
Shilia Kaaya
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Vodacom

-----Original Message-----
From: "Laurean Rugambwa B." <rugambwa@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:07:28
To: <millcent@yahoo.com>; <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki,
 maadili ya bunge


Millicent,
 Jaji mkuu wa Kenya(Dr.Willy Mutunga) ni mwanaharakati wa kufa mtu!
 
  Lakini huyo amekali kiti na walimpa kwa kumjua msimamo wake, maandiko yake and I can tell you, he will transform judiciary in Kenya.
 
 Just watch our brothers are ahead of us in everything, whether we like it or not. They have something to teach us.
 
 Good evening,
 LR
 Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone provided by Airtel Tanzania.
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Millcent <millcent@yahoo.com>
 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:53:42
 To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
 Cc: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
 Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki,
  maadili ya bunge
 
 
 Tony PT, Mh Lissu, Chambi na wengine habari
 
 
 Tunashukuru kwa shule kali kuhusu nafasi ya Activism kwenye bunge na siasa kwa jumla
 
 
 Nakubaliana na wengi lengo kuu ya siasa ni kuboresha maisha ya nchi husika na silaha zote zinatakiwa kutumika iwe ni 'uanaharakati', u Polisi, u Jaji nk
 .Lengo kuu ni tuondoe maovu yanayotukabili
 
 
 Tony PT unafaa ungekuwepo Bungeni na kuungana na wakina Mh Lissu kuiendeleza nchi
 
 Sent from Millcent's iPhone 4s
 
 On Aug 20, 2012, at 17:18, "Tony PT" <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote:
 
 
 
 Chambi,
 
 Heshima hainunuliwi ni ya bure tu! Msemo huu ni wa siku nyingi na hauna maana yoyote mbaya dhidi ya wanaouthamini! Tuheshimiane tu...! Akili ni nywele kila mtu ana zake!
 Sent from my BlackBerry® Porsche-9981 smartphone Thru Tigo Network, Tanzania.
 ----------------
 
 From:  Chambi Chachage <chambi78@yahoo.com <mailto:chambi78@yahoo.com> >
 Sender:  wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 07:06:06 -0700 (PDT)
 To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com> <wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com> >
 ReplyTo:  wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
 Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki, maadili ya bunge
 
 
 
 D, kilichomkera Tony PT ni matumizi ya Tony D. Kwa heshima na taadhima ambayo Bunge linatakiwa kuwa nazo ili kusiwe na kuumbuana basi nitakuwa natumia Tony PT tu badala ya Tony D ili kulinda hiyo "bon-fide" inayojificha nyuma ya 'anonomity'. Ila, kha, haya ma-bona fide ndiyo yanasababisha tuwe na staha kwa mafisadi kisa kuwataja kwa majina ni kuwaumbua. Whatever happened to Name and Shame? Ah, ndio, ni mambo ya harakati za kina Tundu tu hayo - yanapaswa kuishia Mwembe Yanga na si kwenye Bunge Tukufu!
  
 "To name and shame is to "publicly say that a person, group or business has done something wrong".[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_and_shame#cite_note-0>  It is used to discourage some kinds of activity (including anti-social <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour>  or criminal <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal> ) by publishing the names of those involved" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_and_shame
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  From: denis Matanda <denis.matanda@gmail.com <mailto:denis.matanda@gmail.com> >
  To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Utetezi wa Mhe Tundu Lisu mbele ya kamati ya haki, maadili ya bunge
   
 
 
 Tony
 Kwa unyenyekevu wa kipekee please naomba umjibu chambi.  Sisi wengine tunaufuatilia sana mjadala huu tupate kujifunza. Please man!
 On 20 Aug 2012 16:10, "Tony PT" <tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:tony_uk45@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote:
  
 Chambi,
 
 Sina comment kwavile hauna courtesy kwangu na tulishakubaliana kutoendelea na ubishi na wewe kuhusu bon-fide!
 
 
 
 Sent from my BlackBerry® Porsche-9981 smartphone Thru Tigo Network, Tanzania.
 ----------------
 
 From:  Chambi Chachage <

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