Thursday 23 August 2012

Re: [wanabidii] Re: (VVM Forum) Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?

Laurean,

I agree with you completely. Incest is a totally separate crime from
rape but they tend to go together in a lot of cases especially if a
father forces himself on his daughter.
My own opinion opinion is that abortion should be considered in case
of incest if the morning-after pill fails. And anyone committing rape
and incest should be thrown in prison for 30 yrs.

Courage



On 8/23/12, Laurean Rugambwa B. <rugambwa@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Evans:
>
> Just on one pont: Incest is a separate serious crime under most common law
> ie common wealth countries including the USA. In Tanzania its one of the
> unbailable offences.
>
> It is separate from rape, however one can be charged with both incest and
> rape! Two counts joined together. Hope that clarifies.
>
> Best regards,
> LR
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone provided by Airtel Tanzania.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 07:46:48
> To: <VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>; <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>;
> <NVK-Mageuzi@yahoogroups.com>; <Kiswahili@yahoogroups.com>;
> <uchunguzionline@yahoogroups.com>; <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>;
> <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>;
> <progressive-kenyans@googlegroups.com>; <wanakenya@googlegroups.com>;
> <wananchi@yahoogroups.com>; <wananchiforums@googlegroups.com>;
> <info@bungelamwananchi.org>; <bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com>;
> <kptj-communications@fahamu.org>; <youthagendayln@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [wanabidii] Re: (VVM Forum) Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?
>
>
> Machera,
>
> You wrote an essay !!!
>
> In Catholic, abortion is outlawed, period. The church encourages
> giving the kid away for adoption in cases of rape. No woman wants to
> bring up a kid born out of rape and relive the rape over and over.
> I stand by the church's position on this.
>
> Where I differ with the church is that I'm ok with the morning-after
> Pill as a first resort in case of rape. The church does not allow
> pills of any sort.
>
> But the best judge of what to do is the rape victim.
>
> Courage
>
>
>
>
> On 8/23/12, Evans MACHERA <evansmachera@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> *We need to understand;-
>>
>> 1.What rape is and what a woman undergoes during and after the beastly
>> act.
>> 2.What is abortion and who is suited to make the decision of a abortion or
>> not - in either position,should the woman be forced!
>> 3.Women are likely not to speak,but watch with horror the view the men
>> folk
>> will spit out!
>> 4.Can incest be classified under rape!
>> 5.Can abortion be a form of treatment!
>>
>>
>> Here below is a statement/guideline by the S.D.A Church in a situation
>> that
>> calls on the abortion subject.
>> Guidelines on Abortion
>> Many contemporary societies have faced conflict over the
>> morality of abortion.* Such conflict also has affected large numbers
>> within Christianity who want to accept responsibility for the protection
>> of
>> prenatal human life while also preserving the personal liberty of
>> women. The need for guidelines has become evident, as the Church
>> attempts to follow scripture, and to provide moral guidance while
>> respecting individual conscience. Seventh-day Adventists want to relate
>> to the question of abortion in ways that reveal faith in God as the
>> Creator and Sustainer of all life and in ways that reflect Christian
>> responsibility and freedom. Though honest differences on the question of
>> abortion exist among Seventh-day Adventists, the following represents
>> an attempt to provide guidelines on a number of principles and issues.
>> The guidelines are based on broad biblical principles that are presented
>> for
>> study at the end of the document.**
>> 1) Prenatal human life is a magnificent gift of God. God's ideal for human
>> beings affirms the
>> sanctity of human life, in God's image, and requires respect for
>> prenatal life. However, decisions about life must be made in the context
>> of
>> a fallen world. Abortion is never an action of little moral
>> consequence. Thus prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly destroyed.
>> Abortion should be performed only for the most serious reasons.
>> 2) Abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness. The Church
>> should offer gracious support to those who personally face the decision
>> concerning an abortion. Attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in
>> those who have accepted the gospel. Christians are commissioned to
>> become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis
>> as alternatives are considered.
>> 3) In practical, tangible ways the Church as a supportive community should
>> express its commitment to the
>> value of human life. These ways should include:
>> a. strengthening family relationships
>>>b. educating both genders concerning Christian principles of human
>>> sexuality
>>>c. emphasizing responsibility of both male and female for family planning
>>>d. calling both to be responsible for the consequences of behaviors that
>>> are inconsistent with Christian principles
>>>e. creating a safe climate for ongoing discussion of the moral questions
>>> associated with abortion
>>>f. offering support and assistance to women who choose to complete crisis
>>> pregnancies
>>>g. encouraging and assisting fathers to participate responsibly in the
>>> parenting of their children.
>> The Church also should commit itself to assist in alleviating the
>> unfortunate social, economic, and psychological factors that add to
>> abortion and to care redemptively for those suffering the consequences
>> of individual decisions on this issue.
>> 4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however,
>> it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth
>> control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the
>> Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that
>> present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats
>> to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe
>> congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy
>> resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate
>> the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after
>> appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by
>> accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy
>> Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of
>> healthy family relationships.
>> 5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to
>> God.
>> They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty
>> and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society
>> and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the
>> laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to
>> coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be
>> rejected as infringements of personal freedom.
>> 6) Church institutions should be provided with guidelines for
>> developing their own institutional policies in harmony with this
>> statement. Persons having a religious or ethical objection to abortion
>> should not be required to participate in the performance of abortions.
>> 7) Church members should be encouraged to participate in the ongoing
>> consideration of their moral responsibilities with regard to abortion in
>> light of the teaching of scripture.
>>
>> Principles for a Christian View of Life
>> Introduction
>> "Now this is eternal life; that they may know you, the only true God, and
>> Jesus Christ whom you have sent" (John 17:3, NIV). In Christ is the
>> promise
>> of eternal life; but since human life is
>> mortal, humans are confronted with difficult issues regarding life and
>> death. The following principles refer to the whole person (body, soul,
>> and spirit), an indivisible whole (Genesis 2:7; 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
>>
>> Life: Our valuable gift from God
>> 1) God is the Source, Giver, and Sustainer of all life (Acts 17:25,28; Job
>> 33:4; Genesis 1:30, 2:7; Psalm 36:9; John 1:3,4).
>> 2) Human life has unique value because human beings, though fallen,
>> are created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27; Romans 3:23; 1 John 2:2; 1
>> John 3:2; John 1:29; 1 Peter 1:18,19).
>> 3) God values human life not on the basis of human accomplishments or
>> contributions but because we are God's creation and the object of His
>> redeeming love (Romans 5:6,8; Ephesians 2:2-6; 1 Timothy 1:15; Titus
>> 3:4,5; Matthew 5:43-48; Ephesians 2:4-9; John 1:3, 10:10).
>>
>> Life: Our response to God's gift
>> 4) Valuable as it is, human life is not the only or ultimate
>> concern. Self-sacrifice in devotion to God and His principles may take
>> precedence over life itself (Revelation 12:11; 1 Corinthians 13).
>> 5) God calls for the protection of human life and holds humanity
>> accountable for its destruction (Exodus 20:13; Revelation 21:8; Exodus
>> 23:7; Deuteronomy 24:16; Proverbs 6:16,17; Jeremiah 7:3-34; Micah 6:7;
>> Genesis 9:5,6).
>> 6) God is especially concerned for the protection of the weak, the
>> defenseless, and the oppressed (Psalm 82:3,4; James 1:27; Micah 6:8;
>> Acts 20:35; Proverbs 24:11,12; Luke 1:52-54).
>> 7) Christian love (agape) is the costly dedication of our lives to
>> enhancing the lives of others. Love also respects personal dignity and
>> does not condone the oppression of one person to support the abusive
>> behavior of another (Matthew 16:21; Philippians 2:1-11; 1 John 3:16; 1
>> John 4:8-11; Matthew 22:39; John 18:22,23; John 13:34).
>> 8) The believing community is called to demonstrate Christian love in
>> tangible, practical, and substantive ways. God calls us to restore
>> gently the broken (Galatians 6:1,2; 1 John 3:17,18; Matthew 1:23;
>> Philippians 2:1-11; John 8:2-11; Romans 8:1-14; Matthew 7:1,2, 12:20;
>> Isaiah 40:42, 62:2-4).
>>
>> Life: Our right and responsibility to decide
>> 9) God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to
>> abuse and tragic consequences. His unwillingness to coerce human
>> obedience necessitated the sacrifice of His Son. He requires us to use
>> His gifts in accordance with His will and ultimately will judge their
>> misuse (Deuteronomy 30:19,20; Genesis 3; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 3:5,6,
>> 6:1,2; Galatians 5:13).
>> 10) God calls each of us individually to moral decision making and to
>> search
>> the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such
>> choices (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).
>> 11) Decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made
>> within the context of healthy family relationships with the
>> support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).
>> 12) Human decisions should always be centered in seeking the will of God
>> (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 6:6; Luke 22:42).
>> *Abortion, as understood in these guidelines, is defined as any
>> action aimed at the termination of a pregnancy already established. This
>> is
>> distinguished from contraception, which is intended to prevent a
>> pregnancy. The focus of the document is on abortion.
>> **The fundamental perspective of these guidelines is taken from a
>> broad study of scripture as shown in the "Principles for a Christian
>> View of Human Life" included at the end of this document.
>> _______________
>> These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of
>> Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council
>> session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>  From: Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?
>>
>> Banda,
>>
>> I agree with you completely. The Morning-after Pill should be the
>> first resort in a case of rape. If that is not possible, bear it and
>> carry the pregnancy then give the baby up for adoption. You do not
>> want to bring the kid up and be reminded of the rape forever. That is
>> the kindest thing to do for that kid. People have been known to
>> mistreat kids they bore from rape.
>>
>> Courage,
>> Oduor Maurice
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/23/12, Charles Banda <chasbanda@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Should abortion be permissible in cases of rape? That's jumping the gun.
>>>  Before we discuss the propriety of abortion in the specific instance of
>>> rape, let us first establish a moral baseline by discussing the propriety
>>> of abortion in general.
>>>
>>>  I want to be very clear: In my own opinion, abortion is a
>>> *TERRIBLE*thing.
>>> Now, I would not rush to make abortion illegal, since that only seems to
>>> make things worse, but the idea that unborn children can be flippantly
>>> murdered in cold blood is just simply NASTY. Nowadays, you can not get
>>> away
>>> with murdering a useless cat; You can not get away with murdering a dog;
>>> you can not get away with murdering an innocent lizard, and in most
>>> jurisdictions, you can not even cut down a tree without  running afoul of
>>> the law.
>>>
>>> So why then should anyone get away with murdering a defenseless unborn
>>> child? On what grounds, exactly, might that level of cruelty be excused?
>>> By
>>> what moral reasoning might a dog rate higher than an unborn infant?
>>>
>>>  Anyhow you look at it, abortion is a *TERRIBLY WICKED* thing to do,
>>> which
>>> is why we should not be encouraging it as a society. While I would not
>>> rush
>>> to criminalize abortion, I would work overtime to build a society where
>>> unwanted pregnancies, and the need for abortion, are utterly minimized.
>>>
>>>  (a.) If you don't want a child, grab a condom.
>>>
>>> (b.) If you forget, or if you give in to indiscretion in a moment of heat
>>> and passion, use a morning-after pill to side-track pregnancy while it is
>>> still early.
>>> (c.) Finally, in the unlikely event that everything fails, take some
>>> *PERSONAL  RESPONSIBILITY* for your own recklessness and have the baby.
>>> If
>>> you don't want the child, you can always give him away for adoption, the
>>> same way that Steve Jobs, or Babe Ruth, or Malcomn X, or Marilyn Monroe,
>>> or
>>> Mark Twain, were given out for adoption.
>>>
>>> Nobody should be cutting up the limbs of a 3-month old fetus. Its nasty
>>> and
>>> cruel and *REALLY BARBARIC*, and it is really selfish to presume that a
>>> woman's "choice" to save face after a reckless sexual choices supersedes
>>> the baby's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
>>>  If you are pro the life of a cat or a lizard, the least you can do is be
>>> pro the the life of an incubating human being.
>>>
>>>  Moving on ...
>>>
>>> Should abortion be permissible in cases of rape then? I frankly have no
>>> clear answer. Rape is a horrible crime, and carrying an offspring from
>>> rape
>>> must be extremely nauseating. I can not even begin to imagine how
>>> traumatic
>>> that would be.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Yet, I can not help but ask: as horrible as rape is, is slaughtering an
>>> innocent child any less horrible? I really don't know that it is. In my
>>> book, people are people are people are people, whether they are tall or
>>> short, rich or born, black or white, born or unborn. An innocent child
>>> conceived from even rape is in my opinion also entitled to life, to
>>> liberty, to kindness, to dignity, and to the pursuit of happiness.
>>>
>>> So should it be acceptable to abort babies conceived from rape? A YES
>>> answer is not completely satisfactory to moral sentiment.
>>>  So if someone is raped, and they don't want a baby, I think they should
>>> as
>>> a matter of urgency to take a Morning-after pill the very next day.
>>>
>>> Anyway, those are my thoughts. Yours are welcome.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
>>> <http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
>>> <http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>>
>>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
>>> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha
>>> ukishatuma
>>>
>>> Disclaimer:
>>> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any
>>> legal
>>> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must
>>> be
>>> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree
>>> to
>>> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
>> <http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
>> <http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>
>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
>> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha
>> ukishatuma
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal
>> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must
>> be
>> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree
>> to
>> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>
> --
> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
> <http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
> <http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>
> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com  Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha
> ukishatuma
>
> Disclaimer:
> Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal
> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be
> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to
> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>

--
Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com

Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma

Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.

0 comments:

Post a Comment