Nakubaliana na wewe, si kwa kuwa wewe ni mwalimu wangu, lakini kwa kuwa umesema kweli. Leo Malawi na Tanzania zikiingia katika vita watakaoumia ni wale wamalawi na watanzania ambao katika maisha yao ya kila siku hawana habari na mistari inayotenganisha Tanzania na Malawi. Kwa hiyo ni muhimu viongozi wetu ( Tanzania na Malawi) wakafanya mazungumzo yatakayowezesha nchi zote mbili kutumia ziwa Nyasa kwa manufaa ya watu wa pande zote. Nadhani huu ndio msimamo wa Tanzania uliotangazwa na Waziri wetu wa Mambo wa nje. Pamoja na hilo, kama wenzetu wanajiimarisha kivingine, hatupaswi kupuuza kwa ajili ya kulinda maslahi ya nchi yetu.
Alex
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on the Tigo Tanzania Network
From: Azaveli Lwaitama <kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com>
Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 21:40:10 +0000
To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Dear Pan African Brothers and Sisters,
Tony has given us some legal insights that our foreign ministry people can use in the preliminary negotiations with their Malawian counterparts at this point in time. Negotiations have to start from where previous negotiations ended and should not proceed as if there have not been any negotiations sinceTanganyika
While the OAU/AU understanding that we all have to respect colonial borders for the moment even when they are absurd and illogical holds, I would have thought that both Malawi and Tanzania, being members of SADC and the AU are still bound by the spirit as much as the letter of international agreements as they relate to never interpreting colonial border demarcations in a manner that makes the lives of ordinary people who live in border areas hell! What the Heligoland Treaty may say surely we can sit down with ourMalawi foreign ministry people and agree NOT to interpret treaties setting up colonial borders in a such a way that causes Tanzanians who live on the shores of Lake Nyasa miserable and hell!!!
Both Tanzanian and Malawian negotiators in this dispute must avoid using inflammatory language and must desist from proceeding with negotiations without putting the interests of Tanzanians and Malawians who had lived in peace with each other sharing the water and the fish in Lake Nyasa together for centuries before the British and German colonialists met in Berlin or London to draw lines on pieces of paper called maps. War mongering is a stupid game to play especially since the people ofTanzania and Malawi who live on the shores of Lake Nyasa will be the first to be killed and have their lives disrupted by any resort to war by any side.
The British company that has been give a concession by Malawi to explore for oil and gas on Lake Nyasa must NOT be allowed to turn our foreign affairs people, both in Malawi and Tanzania, into imbeciles who foolish enough to want to subject their people to a senseless war that will kill and maim their people who live near Lake Nyasa and lead the oil and gas revenues gained be used to pay bills arising from the war business. This a business that can be avoided by engaging in peace business like establishing joint company to partner with the British firm doing the explorations for oil and gas.
The main beneficiaries of the chest beating and sounding of war drums our foreign ministry officials and the media by are more than likely to be British and other foreign weapons manufacturers!!!! But I can also see some benefits accruing to our incumbent political leadership inMalawi and Tanzania Tanzania and Malawi Malawi and Tanzania
Mwl. Lwaitama
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
From: matinyi@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:12:30 -0400
One should not confuse between his/her understanding of the issue and the reality on the ground. Where is the proof that Tanzania is relying on this treaty? Everybody knows that Tanzania is relying on the 1982 UN Convention. Is that self defeating?
T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network
ICJ we should go indeed. They are insisting on something that does not belong to them.
The starting point is that the position of Tanzania is self defeating and unattainable. The treaty they are relying on did not create the boundary in the middle of the lake but on the shores of the east and northern side of the lake. The relevant provision of the treaty creating the boundaries of Tanzania, then Germany East Africa, Article 1 clause 2 states;
'To the south by the line that starts on the coast of the northern border of Mozambique Province and follows the course of the Ruvuma River to the point where the Messinge flows into the Ruvuma. From there the line runs westwards on the parallel of latitude to the shore of Lake Nyasa. Turning north, it continues along the eastern, northern and western shores of the lake until it reaches the northern bank of the mouth of Songwe River……."
The key word here is the shore. The treaty clearly provides that border runs to the shore and runs upwards towards the north along the shore. Now everyone knows that the meaning of the word shore in English is the line between land and water of water bodies such as lakes, sea and ocean. What the treaty is providing is not a border in the middle of the lake, but in the shores of the lake on the Tanzanian side. If the origins of the Tanzania national boundaries are from this treaty, where is the claim for part of the lake coming from? That is a mistaken belief in my view.
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Redson Kapindu <rkapindu@yahoo.com> wrote:
"In the absence of a major effort by Malawi to ... exploit the resources of the Lake in a more thoroughgoing manner than at present, it seems likely that the status quo (kuti nyanja ndi yathu) will persist."
Isaac
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Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
Tony has given us some legal insights that our foreign ministry people can use in the preliminary negotiations with their Malawian counterparts at this point in time. Negotiations have to start from where previous negotiations ended and should not proceed as if there have not been any negotiations since
While the OAU/AU understanding that we all have to respect colonial borders for the moment even when they are absurd and illogical holds, I would have thought that both Malawi and Tanzania, being members of SADC and the AU are still bound by the spirit as much as the letter of international agreements as they relate to never interpreting colonial border demarcations in a manner that makes the lives of ordinary people who live in border areas hell! What the Heligoland Treaty may say surely we can sit down with our
Both Tanzanian and Malawian negotiators in this dispute must avoid using inflammatory language and must desist from proceeding with negotiations without putting the interests of Tanzanians and Malawians who had lived in peace with each other sharing the water and the fish in Lake Nyasa together for centuries before the British and German colonialists met in Berlin or London to draw lines on pieces of paper called maps. War mongering is a stupid game to play especially since the people of
The British company that has been give a concession by Malawi to explore for oil and gas on Lake Nyasa must NOT be allowed to turn our foreign affairs people, both in Malawi and Tanzania, into imbeciles who foolish enough to want to subject their people to a senseless war that will kill and maim their people who live near Lake Nyasa and lead the oil and gas revenues gained be used to pay bills arising from the war business. This a business that can be avoided by engaging in peace business like establishing joint company to partner with the British firm doing the explorations for oil and gas.
The main beneficiaries of the chest beating and sounding of war drums our foreign ministry officials and the media by are more than likely to be British and other foreign weapons manufacturers!!!! But I can also see some benefits accruing to our incumbent political leadership in
Mwl. Lwaitama
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
From: matinyi@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:12:30 -0400
One should not confuse between his/her understanding of the issue and the reality on the ground. Where is the proof that Tanzania is relying on this treaty? Everybody knows that Tanzania is relying on the 1982 UN Convention. Is that self defeating?
T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network
----- Reply message -----
From: "Leila Abdul" <hifadhi@gmail.com>
To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Date: Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:51 am
From: "Leila Abdul" <hifadhi@gmail.com>
To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Date: Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:51 am
ICJ we should go indeed. They are insisting on something that does not belong to them.
'To the south by the line that starts on the coast of the northern border of Mozambique Province and follows the course of the Ruvuma River to the point where the Messinge flows into the Ruvuma. From there the line runs westwards on the parallel of latitude to the shore of Lake Nyasa. Turning north, it continues along the eastern, northern and western shores of the lake until it reaches the northern bank of the mouth of Songwe River……."
The key word here is the shore. The treaty clearly provides that border runs to the shore and runs upwards towards the north along the shore. Now everyone knows that the meaning of the word shore in English is the line between land and water of water bodies such as lakes, sea and ocean. What the treaty is providing is not a border in the middle of the lake, but in the shores of the lake on the Tanzanian side. If the origins of the Tanzania national boundaries are from this treaty, where is the claim for part of the lake coming from? That is a mistaken belief in my view.
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Redson Kapindu <rkapindu@yahoo.com> wrote:
From my little reading on this issue thus far, I would say to Tanzania: you want us to go to the ICJ? ...Let's go! Many times when I meet Tanzanians, especially when they are on their own turf (in TZ) they make so much of a big deal about this claim to the lake. When you push them for the basis of the claim, in the end, it rests on the following "important premise": Mwalimu Nyerere said so! But I feel a bit sad that this dispute might have been fueled by Malawians in exile in TZ ...a lesson in patriotism - wherever we may be and whatever our differences with an incumbent Government might be, country still comes first, politics somewhere thereafter...
From: Isaac Songea <njsongea@yahoo.com>
To: "malawi_lawsociety@googlegroups.com" <malawi_lawsociety@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Malawi - Tanzania Boundary Dispute - article
To: "malawi_lawsociety@googlegroups.com" <malawi_lawsociety@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Malawi - Tanzania Boundary Dispute - article
RedK,
I find this last but one sentence of the article very prophetic now that the catalyst of the conflict is oil exploration:
"In the absence of a major effort by Malawi to ... exploit the resources of the Lake in a more thoroughgoing manner than at present, it seems likely that the status quo (kuti nyanja ndi yathu) will persist."
Isaac
From: Redson Kapindu <rkapindu@yahoo..com>
To: Malawi Law Society Google groups <malawi_lawsociety@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 4:59 PM
Subject: Malawi - Tanzania Boundary Dispute - article
To: Malawi Law Society Google groups <malawi_lawsociety@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 4:59 PM
Subject: Malawi - Tanzania Boundary Dispute - article
Dear colleagues,
As this issue seems to have been re-ignited, at least publicly, I thought I should share this article that might make some interesting reading for those that might not have previously read it.
Regards,
Redson
On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 5:50 PM, mutabaazi lugaziya <mjlugaziya@mail.com> wrote:
Tony, Matinyi, et al
I have heard the Permanent Secretary in Malawi's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, one Patrick Kabambe, so arrogantly saying that Lake Nyasa(Malawi?) being inside of, and as such, part of Malawi. From his tone, I entertain grave doubts whether such a 'hothead", would even "stoop" so low as to sit on a negotiating table!
It is quite interesting that the fellow does not seem to be aware of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10th December, 1982, which came into force on 16th November,1994. This Convention became necessary due to increasing disputes relating to water resources-fishing, minerals(oil and gas) and the shifting of boundaries dueto natural causes. This is the principal law governing disputes relating to water bodies. By the way, the Convention applies to lakes, rivers and other waterways-the Suez, the Panama Canals etc.
As per this convention, the international community agreed that for states sharing a water resource, the boundary between them should be to part the water body equally to those who share it.
Tanzania ratified the Convention and pledged to be bound by it on 30th September, 1985 (being the 24th country do so). But the mother of all surprises, is that this same Malawi ratified and undertook to be bound by the Convention on 28th September, 2010,(being the 161st), probably after a long soul-searching.
Under International law, the Convention is superior to any other arrangement. The Heligoland Treaty that Malawi is holding up as its ace has no force in International law. I don't know why they seem to turn a blind eye to this 'naked truth"
The contributor here does not purport to be an expert on the Law of the Sea, but this country boasts of such luminaries in the field like none other than our own Joseph Sinde Warioba and Ambassador James Kateka who have variously served as Judges in matters relating to the law of the sea.
On the other hand, Malawi has only a Mr. Munthali who saw us being doomed in the Dowans' case.!!!
In law there is a maxim that 'things speak for themselves"-res ipsa loquitur. From what I heard from this Kabambe fellow, it did not sound like they are prepared for a tete-a-tete negotiations. As a prelude, Tanzania may send a protest note-a note verbale-and gauge the response,after which then the matter may go the International Arbitral bodies.
It is pertinent at thisjuncture to point out that these joint-Commisions have been in existence since the days of Hastings Kamuzu Banda. Malawi's arrogance met equal force in Mwalimu's no nonsense stance.
Now why do people think they can fool around with this country?
Just thinkng aloud!
MJL
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Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
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wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
--
Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
Disclaimer:
Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
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