Mwalimu Lwaitama,
I get your point and actually in another contribition I said something of that nature - that, if we go to war our honorable thieves will still everything to the extent of starving our fighting soldiers, we will go deeper into abject poverty, and so on and so on.
Wisely, war is not a good solution, in general, and in particular in our case - Tanzania of 2012 - for many reasons such as the ones you mentioned - that the two regimes would very much like to tout war so as to gain political strength back home, and that we will end up benefiting mltinationals, etc. War cannot be good in any sense, frankly; that is why wise leaders go to war only as a last resort.
While the 1982 UN Convention sounds logical, I want to highlight two things here:
1. Tanzania cannot force Malawi to abide by international ageement. There are so many examples around the world of similar nature, and I can quickly mention one, Ethiopia and Eritrea. When Addis Ababa decided to dishonour an international legal decision regarding their border dispute about a decade ago, Eritreans could not do anything and they are crying until today. Malawi knows very well about this Convention and they are not interested to abide by it and I can assure you that they will never abide by that. Why haven't they done so if they can? We are the ones who have been begging them to come to the table but that hasn't helped so far. They have no intention of resolving this matter and they will never accept to share the lake with Tanzania. They have already proved that - the talks have been there for decades with no fruits because Malawi says no to everything we propose.
2. With the prospects of gas and oil Malawi will never let Tanzania have a share of the lake. Malawi, just like Tanzania, is so poor and this will be their only bet to get out that poverty - at least theoretically; they will never let it go. I can bet with anyone. Mind you - any leader of Malawi who will let Tanzania take that half of the lake, his/her people will never re-elect him/her. It is more than economics to them; it is political - and historical (stupid they are).
Thanks Mwalimu Lwaitama for your wise approach but let me urge those who dream of a joint corporation; and those who thinks it is stupid to threaten Malawi; and those who think that talks have never been there - to do one think: get their facts correct. The talks have been there for decades and Malawians are not interested to listen to Tanzania; they want the whole lake and do not even call it Nyasa, they say it is theirs and the name is Malawi - just to show their arrogance.
I repeat - Malawi will never bow down. Let us continue to beg them. In fact they now know for sure that Tanzania cannot fully defend her poeople seriously as our harassment to our people on the lake waters have been permanent with no one taking action; they now know us that we are not serious.
Thanks,
Mobhare Matinyi.
From: kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 22:03:46 +0000
--
Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
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Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
I get your point and actually in another contribition I said something of that nature - that, if we go to war our honorable thieves will still everything to the extent of starving our fighting soldiers, we will go deeper into abject poverty, and so on and so on.
Wisely, war is not a good solution, in general, and in particular in our case - Tanzania of 2012 - for many reasons such as the ones you mentioned - that the two regimes would very much like to tout war so as to gain political strength back home, and that we will end up benefiting mltinationals, etc. War cannot be good in any sense, frankly; that is why wise leaders go to war only as a last resort.
While the 1982 UN Convention sounds logical, I want to highlight two things here:
1. Tanzania cannot force Malawi to abide by international ageement. There are so many examples around the world of similar nature, and I can quickly mention one, Ethiopia and Eritrea. When Addis Ababa decided to dishonour an international legal decision regarding their border dispute about a decade ago, Eritreans could not do anything and they are crying until today. Malawi knows very well about this Convention and they are not interested to abide by it and I can assure you that they will never abide by that. Why haven't they done so if they can? We are the ones who have been begging them to come to the table but that hasn't helped so far. They have no intention of resolving this matter and they will never accept to share the lake with Tanzania. They have already proved that - the talks have been there for decades with no fruits because Malawi says no to everything we propose.
2. With the prospects of gas and oil Malawi will never let Tanzania have a share of the lake. Malawi, just like Tanzania, is so poor and this will be their only bet to get out that poverty - at least theoretically; they will never let it go. I can bet with anyone. Mind you - any leader of Malawi who will let Tanzania take that half of the lake, his/her people will never re-elect him/her. It is more than economics to them; it is political - and historical (stupid they are).
Thanks Mwalimu Lwaitama for your wise approach but let me urge those who dream of a joint corporation; and those who thinks it is stupid to threaten Malawi; and those who think that talks have never been there - to do one think: get their facts correct. The talks have been there for decades and Malawians are not interested to listen to Tanzania; they want the whole lake and do not even call it Nyasa, they say it is theirs and the name is Malawi - just to show their arrogance.
I repeat - Malawi will never bow down. Let us continue to beg them. In fact they now know for sure that Tanzania cannot fully defend her poeople seriously as our harassment to our people on the lake waters have been permanent with no one taking action; they now know us that we are not serious.
Thanks,
Mobhare Matinyi.
From: kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com
To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 22:03:46 +0000
Nanyaro and Matinyi,
Please don't disappoint me by making me believe that you too can fall for these Machiavellian tricks. The leadership in Malawi and Tanzania is in the pocket of Western powers, especially the USA. The companies that are setting the two nations at each other's throats are Western oil and gas companies. The leadership in both countries would love to have a violent border dispute to create a diversion from internal political difficulties. The Western powers would love to have these two imperialist lackeys scrambling to buy weapons from western powers and the leadership will benefit if the war allows them to justify keeping their military top brass happy with more money being thrown at the defense forces , though hardly benefiting the rank and file soldiers. Let there a media campaign to force both countries to respect the implications of having had their countries ratify " the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that stipulates that in case nations are bordered by a water body (sea or lake), the border of the two nations will always be on the middle of the water body." Let money be made available to raise teachers' and medical personnel's salaries in the public sector than on buying weapons and preparing for killing each other's poverty-stricken people.
The leadership in both countries must be made to desist from fueling tension and hatred between the brotherly and sisterly peoples of Malawi and Tanzania ..They all must be forced by public pressure to accept the only sensible 20th century solution to the territorial dispute... adhering to the terms of the " the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that stipulates that in case nations are bordered by a water body (sea or lake), the border of the two nations will always be on the middle of the water body." We should NOT encourage our already power intoxicated and arrogant political leaders to beat war drums and adopt an hypocritical national jingoistic stance to hide their singular lack of patriotism in managing our natural resources, such as minerals including gas and oil... How can one fight a war successfully when ones' teachers and doctors have been drive into despair and are indeed on a warpath with the governmen. When Nyerere led the war against Iddi Amin the national was relatively united behind a national hero, Mwalimu Nyerere, whose integrity was impeccable. War under the leadership of an unethical assortment of self-seeking primitive accumulation Machiavellian dilettante would be a disaster!
Mwl. Lwaitama
Please don't disappoint me by making me believe that you too can fall for these Machiavellian tricks. The leadership in Malawi and Tanzania is in the pocket of Western powers, especially the USA. The companies that are setting the two nations at each other's throats are Western oil and gas companies. The leadership in both countries would love to have a violent border dispute to create a diversion from internal political difficulties. The Western powers would love to have these two imperialist lackeys scrambling to buy weapons from western powers and the leadership will benefit if the war allows them to justify keeping their military top brass happy with more money being thrown at the defense forces , though hardly benefiting the rank and file soldiers. Let there a media campaign to force both countries to respect the implications of having had their countries ratify " the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that stipulates that in case nations are bordered by a water body (sea or lake), the border of the two nations will always be on the middle of the water body." Let money be made available to raise teachers' and medical personnel's salaries in the public sector than on buying weapons and preparing for killing each other's poverty-stricken people.
The leadership in both countries must be made to desist from fueling tension and hatred between the brotherly and sisterly peoples of Malawi and Tanzania ..They all must be forced by public pressure to accept the only sensible 20th century solution to the territorial dispute... adhering to the terms of the " the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that stipulates that in case nations are bordered by a water body (sea or lake), the border of the two nations will always be on the middle of the water body." We should NOT encourage our already power intoxicated and arrogant political leaders to beat war drums and adopt an hypocritical national jingoistic stance to hide their singular lack of patriotism in managing our natural resources, such as minerals including gas and oil... How can one fight a war successfully when ones' teachers and doctors have been drive into despair and are indeed on a warpath with the governmen. When Nyerere led the war against Iddi Amin the national was relatively united behind a national hero, Mwalimu Nyerere, whose integrity was impeccable. War under the leadership of an unethical assortment of self-seeking primitive accumulation Machiavellian dilettante would be a disaster!
Mwl. Lwaitama
> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 00:05:05 +0300
> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> From: nanyaro04@gmail.com
> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>
> We should beat Malawi,for our nation,we can not let them the whole
> Lake just because of the expenses of war.
> We have reason to beat them,let it be now.
>
> On 8/3/12, Mobhare Matinyi <matinyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Mwalimu Lwaitama,
> > Shikamoo!
> > As you know:
> > 1. When Ben was in power, he talked endlessly with Muluzi.
> > 2. Then Mutharika came and his arrogance never spared us but at least we
> > didn't hear a lot of nonsense. Again the talks were endless.
> > 3. Now the confused lady is there, and they want to put it in black and
> > white....that the lake is theirs...........in fact we are the ones begging
> > for talks.
> > Let us continue to talk and see what happens.
> > I once talked Malawians here in Washington, and what I heard was impossible
> > to believe.
> > My prediction is: Talks will never solve this problem - either we give up or
> > beat them up.
> > Inviting international judgement may not help as has been the case in many
> > countries. International judgment needs leaders who respect it but I don't
> > think Malawians are ready for that. They want the whole lake.
> > Matinyi.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com
> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:10:55 +0000
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It will be silly for Tanzania and Malawi to go to war over this border
> > dispute...Both Malawi and Tanzania are signatories of "Both were put together by
> > British and German colonialists and therefore owe their existence in
> > territorial terms to colonial treaties such as the Helligoland Treaty of
> > 1890. Even if foreign companies have told each of them that there is oil in
> > the middle or on the shore of the the lake that divides them, they should
> > sit down and agree on a formular that spares their poverty-stricken people
> > from a senseless war that will see all the oil revenues from either of them
> > go to buying weapons to kill each other.. I see the USA's Madam Clinton is
> > visiting Malawi on Sunday, let her not encourage either of us to be big
> > headed ..I have a grandson who has dual Malawi and Tanzanian nationality
> > till he reaches 18 years and it will be absurd to tell this 8 year-old
> > Malawian-Tanzanian that the two sister countries are at war with each other
> > over who owns a lake that divides them! Let the two countries sit down and
> > talk seriously, not like the way the Govt of Tanzania talked with doctors
> > and teachers, but seriously, without pre-conditions and with the interests
> > of our two peoples at heart, especially those who live near the lake, whther
> > we call it Lake Nyasa or Lake Malawi! In the end we need to hurry up and
> > join our two countries, through SADC initiatives, into one country!
> > Mwl. Lwaitama
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 19:40:17 +0300
> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> > From: hifadhi@gmail.com
> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> >
> >
> > Those that are advocating for war do not know what they are talking about.
> > Both Tanzania and Malawi have good points to make. Both countris have
> > genuine reasons to claim what they currently claim. It's a question of
> > advising them wisely so they may conclude their discussions ammicably and
> > peacefully. The source of the border despute between the two nations have
> > nothing to do with Malawi or Tanzania. It is purely one of the Mzungu-made
> > desputes. Malawi's argument is based on an agreement of 1890 between former
> > colonial powers that stipulates the border between the two countries as
> > lying along the Tanzanian shore of the lake. On the other hand, Tanzania's
> > argument is based on the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that
> > stipulates that in case nations are bordered by a water body (sea or lake),
> > the border of the two nations will always be on the middle of the water
> > body.
> > Going by these two international conventions, one would argue that both
> > nations have genuine reasons to claim what they currently claim and it is
> > only peaceful negotiations that will help the two countries to arrive at a
> > meaningful decision.
> > Above all, both Tanzania and Malawi are poor nations and none can claim to
> > have any military might than the other. In view of this, war between the two
> > friendly neighbours will only exacerbate poverty between the two nations as
> > both of them will channel a good chunk of their meagre revenues to
> > purchasing useless weapons at the expense of investment in social services.
> > Again, the winner here will be the Mzungu who manufactures and sells these
> > weapons.
> > In the same vein, if oil resources were anything to bring a lasting economic
> > prosperity, then the Nigeria's Niger Delta wouldn't have been one of the
> > poorest places on earth. Why? Because oil is not drilled for the good of
> > Africa. It is meant to enrich a Mzungu somewhere in one of the first-world
> > countries. Inquire from Malawian authorities and you will understand how
> > much will the country be getting when oil is finally found and compare this
> > with what the Mzungu who is exploring for oil will be going home with. You
> > should definately laugh at the Bare Bone that Malawi will be receiving and
> > thus you will regard yourself as a foolish fellow if you were one of those
> > advocating for war.
> > In short therefore, the Mzungu will be happy that he has found a ready
> > market for weapons. He will also be very happy that the fight between Malawi
> > and Tanzania, over a bare bone, means that neither Malawi nor Tanzania will
> > be in the watch out for who is stealing oil from the desputed lake and
> > therefore, every drop of the oil will go to Europe unquestioned.
> > Tanzania also gives another good example of how Africa's resources are
> > swindled. The country is the third largest producer of gold in Africa after
> > South Africa and Ghana but Tanzania gets less than 10% of gold revenues.
> > Besides, both nations have something to depend from one another. In the
> > present-day Malawi, Kiswahili is almost their third language, thanks to the
> > increasing number of Swahili/Taifa (Tanzanian) traders in Mzuzu, Lilongwe,
> > Blantyre, Nkhata-Bay etc. I'm told the number of Tanzanians living in Malawi
> > (legally and illegally) goes beyond 100,000 and a number of them have
> > crossed the same lake and are engaging in fishing even in rural areas of
> > Malawi. On the other hand, Tanzania is home to thousands of Malawians who
> > work as garden boys, watchmen and a number of other low-profile jobs in Dar
> > es Salaam and Mbeya among others. These low-profile jobs are however paying
> > to them and they end up building houses in Mzuzu, Lilongwwe, Chintheche etc.
> > A war between the two nations will destabilize lives for these people.
> > In most cases, the war between two African nations translates into a war
> > between two first-world countries who have vested interests in the warring
> > nations and thus, no one should make a mistake of thinking that Malawi will
> > be an easy ride for Tanzania or Tanzania will be an easy ride for Malawi.
> > May God Bless Africa!
> > http://www.nyasatimes.com/malawi/2012/08/03/dispute-on-lake-malawi-tanzania-says-ready-for-any-provocation/?cp=all#comments
> >
> >
> > The Tanzania have a problem with Anglo German treaty which demarcated the
> > border between the then Nyasaland and Tanganyika yet the same treaty
> > demarcated the border of Tanganyika and Kenya, why have they not made a
> > claim with the Kenyans with regard to some territory, after all a huge
> > number of animals from the Serengeti migrate to Kenya to feed on pasture
> > lands, they can claim those pasture lands existing on the Kenyans side of
> > the border.
> > To heil this man in picture.
> > Talking of provocation,who is provoking who between Malawi and Tanzania if I
> > may ask?.
> > I thought it was Tanzania that brought up this issue in the first place,so
> > if anything it should be Malawi talking of being provoked and not Tanzania
> > for God's sake.
> > Tanzania can not produce any tangible evidence to substantiate her empty
> > allegations that her people have been or will be harrassed in any way along
> > the lake shores if Malawi goes ahaed with her petroleum exprolation
> > exercise.
> > Tanzanians and Malawians living along the shores of Lake Malawi have always
> > enjoyed the benefits that this lake brings to them in a spirit of
> > neighbourhood without any problems and it is shocking to note that Tanzania
> > is bent on wrecking that long-lasting sound relationship simply because of
> > GREED.
> > Tanzanians should be reminded that Malawians are not ready to bow down to
> > their pressure,NO,that is not going to happen because the exercise is
> > happening within Malawi's territory.The petroleum exprolation exercise will
> > continue!!
> > http://www.nyasatimes.com/malawi/2012/08/03/dispute-on-lake-malawi-tanzania-says-ready-for-any-provocation/?cp=all#comments
> >
> >
> >
> > 2012/8/3 ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I remember in one of the speeches Mwalimu Nyerere saying so during Iddi Amin
> > days. He said whenever Amin run in to touble he would say Tanzania have
> > invaded Uganda. I can imagine to be a highest level of frastration from
> > internal problems. Are we already there? I think NO.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/3/12, Peter Lwegasira <petermakatu@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Peter Lwegasira <petermakatu@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> > To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> > Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 7:11 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I was talking to a friend regarding this but instead of listening to be he
> > commented like this: "I guess this might be one of those schemes to
> > externalize our internal problems". What a guess??!! May be.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Hildegarda Kiwasila <khildegarda@yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 2:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ugomvi huu sio mara ya kwanza, huko nyuma ulizuka tena waliipata. Hata
> > hivyo, tafiti zimefanywa huko na zinaonyesha jinsi gani maji na mito
> > iingiayo ziwani inapofurika na kupinda katika maeneo karibu na ziwa
> > yanavyofanya mara upande huu uko ndani ya Nyasa-Malawi mara wakati huu wako
> > Tanzania.Bila ya Shaka Rais Mama aliyepo atasaidia kuzuia vita ya kugombania
> > mpaka isije kuwa kama ile ya Idd Amin. sasa hizo ndege zirukazo kwetu
> > tukizitungua itakuwaje?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Rehema Kikwete <rehemaki@gmail.com>
> > To: Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 13:35
> > Subject: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> >
> > " wananchi wa Mikoa ya Mbeya,Iringa na Ruvuma wasiwe na wasiwasi kwani
> > Tanzania iko tayari kupambana na uchokozi wowote ule kutoka kwa
> > Malawi" Samwel Sitta
> >
> > On Aug 3, 12:42 pm, Sankey Mbillah <acck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Haya watanzania kazi kwetu tutajua serikali legelege ni ipi?, tumezoea
> >> serikali yetu kujiridhisha na maongezi yanayoishia bungeni na mafaili
> >> muhimu kuyafunika ila ya wapinzani (siasa za ndani) kuchupalia, Hapo
> >> nyuma
> >> tumesikia mipaka ya kaskazini inabanwa na nchi jirani haijazungumziwa
> >> kisawasawa wala kuonyesha usirious kwenye tuhuma hizo, saizi kusini nao
> >> wanataka waiondoe tanzania kwenye umiliki wa ziwa nyasa sijui watz
> >> watakula
> >> nini. Majirani zetu wameisha ona ubovu wa serikali yetu kuwa haipo makini
> >> na haifuatilii maswala ya mipaka na rasilimali zake zaidi ya kuongea
> >> kwenye
> >> majukwaa bila vitendo. "(Ikitokea mtu kaanzisha tuzo za viongozi wenye
> >> mikakati ya majukwaani viongozi wa tanzania watachukua hiyo tuzo kila
> >> miaka)"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Tracy John <tracykw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute Journal Article published in 1973
> >> > by
> >> > Journal of Modern african Studies
> >>
> >> > --
> >> > Karibu Jukwaa lawww.mwanabidii.com
> >> > Pata nafasi mpya za Kaziwww.kazibongo.blogspot.com
> >> > Blogu ya Habari na Pichawww.patahabari.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> > Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
> >> > wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha
> >> > ukishatuma
> >>
> >> > Disclaimer:
> >> > Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility for any
> >> > legal
> >> > consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must
> >> > be
> >> > presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you
> >> > agree
> >> > to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
> >
> > --
> > Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
> > Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
> > Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
> >
> > Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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> >
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> > --
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> > presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
> > Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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> > Disclaimer:
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> > presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
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> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
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> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> From: nanyaro04@gmail.com
> To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
>
> We should beat Malawi,for our nation,we can not let them the whole
> Lake just because of the expenses of war.
> We have reason to beat them,let it be now.
>
> On 8/3/12, Mobhare Matinyi <matinyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Mwalimu Lwaitama,
> > Shikamoo!
> > As you know:
> > 1. When Ben was in power, he talked endlessly with Muluzi.
> > 2. Then Mutharika came and his arrogance never spared us but at least we
> > didn't hear a lot of nonsense. Again the talks were endless.
> > 3. Now the confused lady is there, and they want to put it in black and
> > white....that the lake is theirs...........in fact we are the ones begging
> > for talks.
> > Let us continue to talk and see what happens.
> > I once talked Malawians here in Washington, and what I heard was impossible
> > to believe.
> > My prediction is: Talks will never solve this problem - either we give up or
> > beat them up.
> > Inviting international judgement may not help as has been the case in many
> > countries. International judgment needs leaders who respect it but I don't
> > think Malawians are ready for that. They want the whole lake.
> > Matinyi.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: kerezesia_mukalugaisa@hotmail.com
> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:10:55 +0000
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It will be silly for Tanzania and Malawi to go to war over this border
> > dispute...Both Malawi and Tanzania are signatories of "Both were put together by
> > British and German colonialists and therefore owe their existence in
> > territorial terms to colonial treaties such as the Helligoland Treaty of
> > 1890. Even if foreign companies have told each of them that there is oil in
> > the middle or on the shore of the the lake that divides them, they should
> > sit down and agree on a formular that spares their poverty-stricken people
> > from a senseless war that will see all the oil revenues from either of them
> > go to buying weapons to kill each other.. I see the USA's Madam Clinton is
> > visiting Malawi on Sunday, let her not encourage either of us to be big
> > headed ..I have a grandson who has dual Malawi and Tanzanian nationality
> > till he reaches 18 years and it will be absurd to tell this 8 year-old
> > Malawian-Tanzanian that the two sister countries are at war with each other
> > over who owns a lake that divides them! Let the two countries sit down and
> > talk seriously, not like the way the Govt of Tanzania talked with doctors
> > and teachers, but seriously, without pre-conditions and with the interests
> > of our two peoples at heart, especially those who live near the lake, whther
> > we call it Lake Nyasa or Lake Malawi! In the end we need to hurry up and
> > join our two countries, through SADC initiatives, into one country!
> > Mwl. Lwaitama
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 19:40:17 +0300
> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> > From: hifadhi@gmail.com
> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com
> >
> >
> > Those that are advocating for war do not know what they are talking about.
> > Both Tanzania and Malawi have good points to make. Both countris have
> > genuine reasons to claim what they currently claim. It's a question of
> > advising them wisely so they may conclude their discussions ammicably and
> > peacefully. The source of the border despute between the two nations have
> > nothing to do with Malawi or Tanzania. It is purely one of the Mzungu-made
> > desputes. Malawi's argument is based on an agreement of 1890 between former
> > colonial powers that stipulates the border between the two countries as
> > lying along the Tanzanian shore of the lake. On the other hand, Tanzania's
> > argument is based on the 1982 UN Convention on Law of the Sea that
> > stipulates that in case nations are bordered by a water body (sea or lake),
> > the border of the two nations will always be on the middle of the water
> > body.
> > Going by these two international conventions, one would argue that both
> > nations have genuine reasons to claim what they currently claim and it is
> > only peaceful negotiations that will help the two countries to arrive at a
> > meaningful decision.
> > Above all, both Tanzania and Malawi are poor nations and none can claim to
> > have any military might than the other. In view of this, war between the two
> > friendly neighbours will only exacerbate poverty between the two nations as
> > both of them will channel a good chunk of their meagre revenues to
> > purchasing useless weapons at the expense of investment in social services.
> > Again, the winner here will be the Mzungu who manufactures and sells these
> > weapons.
> > In the same vein, if oil resources were anything to bring a lasting economic
> > prosperity, then the Nigeria's Niger Delta wouldn't have been one of the
> > poorest places on earth. Why? Because oil is not drilled for the good of
> > Africa. It is meant to enrich a Mzungu somewhere in one of the first-world
> > countries. Inquire from Malawian authorities and you will understand how
> > much will the country be getting when oil is finally found and compare this
> > with what the Mzungu who is exploring for oil will be going home with. You
> > should definately laugh at the Bare Bone that Malawi will be receiving and
> > thus you will regard yourself as a foolish fellow if you were one of those
> > advocating for war.
> > In short therefore, the Mzungu will be happy that he has found a ready
> > market for weapons. He will also be very happy that the fight between Malawi
> > and Tanzania, over a bare bone, means that neither Malawi nor Tanzania will
> > be in the watch out for who is stealing oil from the desputed lake and
> > therefore, every drop of the oil will go to Europe unquestioned.
> > Tanzania also gives another good example of how Africa's resources are
> > swindled. The country is the third largest producer of gold in Africa after
> > South Africa and Ghana but Tanzania gets less than 10% of gold revenues.
> > Besides, both nations have something to depend from one another. In the
> > present-day Malawi, Kiswahili is almost their third language, thanks to the
> > increasing number of Swahili/Taifa (Tanzanian) traders in Mzuzu, Lilongwe,
> > Blantyre, Nkhata-Bay etc. I'm told the number of Tanzanians living in Malawi
> > (legally and illegally) goes beyond 100,000 and a number of them have
> > crossed the same lake and are engaging in fishing even in rural areas of
> > Malawi. On the other hand, Tanzania is home to thousands of Malawians who
> > work as garden boys, watchmen and a number of other low-profile jobs in Dar
> > es Salaam and Mbeya among others. These low-profile jobs are however paying
> > to them and they end up building houses in Mzuzu, Lilongwwe, Chintheche etc.
> > A war between the two nations will destabilize lives for these people.
> > In most cases, the war between two African nations translates into a war
> > between two first-world countries who have vested interests in the warring
> > nations and thus, no one should make a mistake of thinking that Malawi will
> > be an easy ride for Tanzania or Tanzania will be an easy ride for Malawi.
> > May God Bless Africa!
> > http://www.nyasatimes.com/malawi/2012/08/03/dispute-on-lake-malawi-tanzania-says-ready-for-any-provocation/?cp=all#comments
> >
> >
> > The Tanzania have a problem with Anglo German treaty which demarcated the
> > border between the then Nyasaland and Tanganyika yet the same treaty
> > demarcated the border of Tanganyika and Kenya, why have they not made a
> > claim with the Kenyans with regard to some territory, after all a huge
> > number of animals from the Serengeti migrate to Kenya to feed on pasture
> > lands, they can claim those pasture lands existing on the Kenyans side of
> > the border.
> > To heil this man in picture.
> > Talking of provocation,who is provoking who between Malawi and Tanzania if I
> > may ask?.
> > I thought it was Tanzania that brought up this issue in the first place,so
> > if anything it should be Malawi talking of being provoked and not Tanzania
> > for God's sake.
> > Tanzania can not produce any tangible evidence to substantiate her empty
> > allegations that her people have been or will be harrassed in any way along
> > the lake shores if Malawi goes ahaed with her petroleum exprolation
> > exercise.
> > Tanzanians and Malawians living along the shores of Lake Malawi have always
> > enjoyed the benefits that this lake brings to them in a spirit of
> > neighbourhood without any problems and it is shocking to note that Tanzania
> > is bent on wrecking that long-lasting sound relationship simply because of
> > GREED.
> > Tanzanians should be reminded that Malawians are not ready to bow down to
> > their pressure,NO,that is not going to happen because the exercise is
> > happening within Malawi's territory.The petroleum exprolation exercise will
> > continue!!
> > http://www.nyasatimes.com/malawi/2012/08/03/dispute-on-lake-malawi-tanzania-says-ready-for-any-provocation/?cp=all#comments
> >
> >
> >
> > 2012/8/3 ELISA MUHINGO <elisamuhingo@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I remember in one of the speeches Mwalimu Nyerere saying so during Iddi Amin
> > days. He said whenever Amin run in to touble he would say Tanzania have
> > invaded Uganda. I can imagine to be a highest level of frastration from
> > internal problems. Are we already there? I think NO.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/3/12, Peter Lwegasira <petermakatu@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Peter Lwegasira <petermakatu@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> > To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> > Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 7:11 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I was talking to a friend regarding this but instead of listening to be he
> > commented like this: "I guess this might be one of those schemes to
> > externalize our internal problems". What a guess??!! May be.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Hildegarda Kiwasila <khildegarda@yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com" <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 2:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ugomvi huu sio mara ya kwanza, huko nyuma ulizuka tena waliipata. Hata
> > hivyo, tafiti zimefanywa huko na zinaonyesha jinsi gani maji na mito
> > iingiayo ziwani inapofurika na kupinda katika maeneo karibu na ziwa
> > yanavyofanya mara upande huu uko ndani ya Nyasa-Malawi mara wakati huu wako
> > Tanzania.Bila ya Shaka Rais Mama aliyepo atasaidia kuzuia vita ya kugombania
> > mpaka isije kuwa kama ile ya Idd Amin. sasa hizo ndege zirukazo kwetu
> > tukizitungua itakuwaje?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Rehema Kikwete <rehemaki@gmail.com>
> > To: Wanabidii <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 13:35
> > Subject: [wanabidii] Re: The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute
> >
> > " wananchi wa Mikoa ya Mbeya,Iringa na Ruvuma wasiwe na wasiwasi kwani
> > Tanzania iko tayari kupambana na uchokozi wowote ule kutoka kwa
> > Malawi" Samwel Sitta
> >
> > On Aug 3, 12:42 pm, Sankey Mbillah <acck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Haya watanzania kazi kwetu tutajua serikali legelege ni ipi?, tumezoea
> >> serikali yetu kujiridhisha na maongezi yanayoishia bungeni na mafaili
> >> muhimu kuyafunika ila ya wapinzani (siasa za ndani) kuchupalia, Hapo
> >> nyuma
> >> tumesikia mipaka ya kaskazini inabanwa na nchi jirani haijazungumziwa
> >> kisawasawa wala kuonyesha usirious kwenye tuhuma hizo, saizi kusini nao
> >> wanataka waiondoe tanzania kwenye umiliki wa ziwa nyasa sijui watz
> >> watakula
> >> nini. Majirani zetu wameisha ona ubovu wa serikali yetu kuwa haipo makini
> >> na haifuatilii maswala ya mipaka na rasilimali zake zaidi ya kuongea
> >> kwenye
> >> majukwaa bila vitendo. "(Ikitokea mtu kaanzisha tuzo za viongozi wenye
> >> mikakati ya majukwaani viongozi wa tanzania watachukua hiyo tuzo kila
> >> miaka)"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Tracy John <tracykw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > The Malawi-Tanzania Boundary Dispute Journal Article published in 1973
> >> > by
> >> > Journal of Modern african Studies
> >>
> >> > --
> >> > Karibu Jukwaa lawww.mwanabidii.com
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