Saturday 25 August 2012

Re: [wanabidii] Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?

Kaka,

Siku moja ukabakwa ukashika mimba, rudi tujadiliane kwenye swala hili.
I believe that abortion is something to be left to a woman aliye mja
mzito na daktari wake. Men have no business discussing abortion.
How many men have impregnated women and then abandoned them with the
kids without any financial support? how many of those men are against
abortion or for it?

Courage

On 8/25/12, denis Matanda <denis.matanda@gmail.com> wrote:
> How dare u talk like that about pregnancies? Are u serious that issue of
> pregnancy is " none of men's bussiness"? It is only if women could "self-
> impregnate" ndiyo kauli yako angalau ingebeba maji.
>
> Wanadamu mmelaaniwa ndio maana mnaamini katika kuua. Mnaweza kuita abortion
> namna yeyote mnayotaka lakini haiondoi ukweli kuwa ni mauaji ya kiumbe
> kisichoweza kujitetea. Kama ni sawa kuua kiumbe hicho kikiwa tumboni kwa
> nini iwe nongwa kukinyonga mara tu baada ya kukisukuma? Why this arbitrary
> "cut- off" ya lini maidha yanaanza?
>
> Maurice: last time i checked courage was among other things the willingness
> to standup for the voiceless and the defenseless.ur unconditional support
> for the crimes against unborn kids is nowhere near courageous!
> On 25 Aug 2012 15:09, "Jane Mwakalukwa" <mwakalukwa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you are not a woman, a medical doctor, the issue of abortion is not
>> for
>> you and for those who are chartering away on religious ethos to engage in
>> the abortion issue should seek better avenue such as their pulpit to
>> participate in other social deeds besides regulating women's reproductive
>> bodies.
>>
>> The catholic church blindly waded into the issue of birth control (
>> Most of these priest are not married to women although they have alter
>> boys for fun) and that does not qualify them to poke their noses in
>> women's
>> reproductive issues.
>>
>> Its a domination issue as far as i am concern.Men should pay
>> attention to issue confronting the menfolk and stop their over bearing
>> presence in issues they Know nothing about.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Lutgard Kagaruki
>> <lutgardk@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Well said Lauren, religion is very personal and very private! As for me,
>>> I also believe in God and hence, my prayer doesn't have to go through
>>> that
>>> priest that I don't have faith in! And in any case, religion is also
>>> part
>>> of history; one is Catholic because one was born in a Catholic family
>>> (well, in most cases), if the same person was to be born in a moslem
>>> family, he/she would have been moslem and, nobody would have blamed
>>> them!!
>>> For me, a good moslem, catholic, budha etc, will see the light of God if
>>> they all lead good lives, love their neighbours as they love themselves
>>> and, abide by the good principles of their religions. LKK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Laurean Rugambwa B. <rugambwa@hotmail.com>
>>> *To:* denis Matanda <denis.matanda@gmail.com>; Wanabidii Group <
>>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:00 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [wanabidii] Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?
>>>
>>> Denis,
>>> I don't believe in catholicism, I believe in God! So let's make this
>>> clear. Catholic church is a vehicle towards my belief to God. My
>>> allegiance
>>> is to God.
>>>
>>> And just so you know, I know the church more than what you may imagine.
>>> I
>>> grew up there, I am a catholic, if you think that having a different
>>> views
>>> with church leaders make me non-catholic, I can't argue with you on
>>> that.
>>>
>>> I didn't agree with them on issues of sex scandals, and I didn't leave
>>> the church just because some bishops and priests were involved in the
>>> acts
>>> and cover-up on those unspeakable acts.
>>>
>>> Denis: issue of faith and belief is a personal matter, I wouldn't go as
>>> far as declaring someone non- catholic just because he has a different
>>> views on issues. But you have the freedom to do.
>>>
>>> I believe in staying in the tent, fighting inside that tent rather than
>>> being outside. So I will remain a catholic even if I am ex-communicated.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps.
>>>
>>> LR
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone provided by Airtel Tanzania.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: denis Matanda <denis.matanda@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 04:43:34
>>> To: <wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?
>>>
>>>
>>> Laurean
>>> Your stand on the issues of condoms and abortion have not made u a bad
>>> catholic; they've made you a non catholic and that is not debatable!
>>> U either believe in catholicism or u don't. Cherry picking is not on the
>>> menu!
>>> On 24 Aug 2012 14:43, "Laurean Rugambwa" <rugambwa@hotmail.com <mailto:
>>> rugambwa@hotmail.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Deo
>>> We will argue and debate till tomorrow, as i said before this debate
>>> about when do life start has to do with one's belief,faith,religion and
>>> most importantly values. You know me better, but issues about human
>>> rights,defending rights of groups, i stand up by them, no wonder, am
>>> thinking of a woman gang raped, or raped by one person is forced to keep
>>> the fetus as you called it just because it is a sin to undergo abortion.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mzee piga ua Hapo Mimi na Wewe tukubaliane kutokubalina!
>>>
>>>
>>> I am a catholic but I don't agree with my church on their stand on
>>> issues
>>> such as condoms, abortion,but does that make me a bad catholic? It is
>>> debatable! It is depends with whom you talk to.
>>>
>>> From LR
>>>
>>> On 24 Ago 2012, at 11:33, "Deodatus Balile" <deobalile@yahoo.com
>>> <mailto:
>>> deobalile@yahoo.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even if Lauren,
>>>
>>> The fetus is not a part of the sin, therefore deserves a chance not only
>>> to be heard before reaching that cantankerous decision, but also to be
>>> protected and remain free from any undeserved attack coz is incapable of
>>> defending itself.
>>>
>>> Balile
>>>
>>> Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
>>> deobalile@yahoo.com <mailto:deobalile@yahoo.com>
>>> 0713404827/0784404827
>>>
>>>
>>> UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 8/24/12, Laurean Rugambwa <rugambwa@hotmail.com <mailto:
>>> rugambwa@hotmail.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Laurean Rugambwa <rugambwa@hotmail.com
>>> <mailto:rugambwa@hotmail.com>
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?
>>> To: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com> " <
>>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com> >
>>> Cc: "wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com> " <
>>> wanabidii@googlegroups.com <mailto:wanabidii@googlegroups.com> >
>>> Date: Friday, August 24, 2012, 12:45 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Deo
>>> When it is about rape, thats my reference point
>>>
>>> From LRB
>>>
>>> On 24 Ago 2012, at 10:38, deobalile@yahoo.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deobalile@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Lauren I'm afraid you did not consider the fetus belongs to whom,
>>> whether a woman can dare to have one without men's assistance.
>>> >
>>> > Balile
>>> > Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on the Tigo Tanzania Network
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Laurean Rugambwa <rugambwa@hotmail.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rugambwa@hotmail.com> >
>>> > Sender: wanabidii@googlegroups.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>
>>> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:31:21
>>> > To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>> <wanabidii@googlegroups.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>> >
>>> > Reply-To: wanabidii@googlegroups.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>
>>> > Cc: wanabidii@googlegroups.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>> <wanabidii@googlegroups.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>> >
>>> > Subject: Re: [wanabidii] Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?
>>> >
>>> > Courage
>>> > You wont get the answer you need as each person will have his or
>>> her responses according to values and/or morals they attach to it. You
>>> know very well that Issue of abortion is a complicated one, people use
>>> religion and faith to make their case! Having said that, i encourage
>>> the
>>> fact that we should debate it. Who knows what one might learn from this,
>>> especially men.
>>> >
>>> > Personally,I think that choice should be left to the woman, their body
>>> their choice! That should a answer the question: when does life start?
>>> > Have a good day!
>>> > From LRB
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 24 Ago 2012, at 9:16, "Maurice Oduor" <mauricejoduor@gmail.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mauricejoduor@gmail.com> >
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Rehema,
>>> >>
>>> >> Hivi nikuelewe kwamba you don't support abortion? You are
>>> >> anti-choice?
>>> >>
>>> >> Please hebu tuelezee sababu zako. No one ever uses abortion as birth
>>> >> control. I think walio wengi wanaofanya abortion do it because of
>>> >> rape, illness or some traumatic experience.
>>> >>
>>> >> Courage
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 8/24/12, Rehema Kikwete <rehemaki@gmail.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rehemaki@gmail.com> >
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> On what principle do you base this 'moral right' declaration?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Do you also think that same woman has the 'moral right' to kill an
>>> >>> inconvenient one month-old baby, since it is her baby and no one
>>> else's?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Maurice Oduor
>>> >>> <mauricejoduor@gmail.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mauricejoduor@gmail.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Pauline,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I agree with you completely, and without any reservation. A woman
>>> >>>> has
>>> >>>> the right to have or not have an abortion no matter how the
>>> >>>> pregnancy
>>> >>>> came along.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Courage
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 8/23/12, Pauline Mengi <paulinemengi@gmail.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paulinemengi@gmail.com> >
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>> Abortion is the moral right of a woman, rape or no rape
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Evans MACHERA
>>> >>>>> <evansmachera@yahoo.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=evansmachera@yahoo.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> *We need to understand;-
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 1.What rape is and what a woman undergoes during and after the
>>> beastly
>>> >>>>>> act.
>>> >>>>>> 2.What is abortion and who is suited to make the decision of a
>>> >>>>>> abortion
>>> >>>>>> or
>>> >>>>>> not - in either position,should the woman be forced!
>>> >>>>>> 3.Women are likely not to speak,but watch with horror the view
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> men
>>> >>>>>> folk will spit out!
>>> >>>>>> 4.Can incest be classified under rape!
>>> >>>>>> 5.Can abortion be a form of treatment!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Here below is a statement/guideline by the S.D.A Church in a
>>> situation
>>> >>>>>> that calls on the abortion subject.
>>> >>>>>> Guidelines on Abortion
>>> >>>>>> Many contemporary societies have faced conflict over the morality
>>> of
>>> >>>>>> abortion.* Such conflict also has affected large numbers within
>>> >>>>>> Christianity who want to accept responsibility for the protection
>>> of
>>> >>>>>> prenatal human life while also preserving the personal liberty of
>>> >>>>>> women.
>>> >>>>>> The need for guidelines has become evident, as the Church
>>> >>>>>> attempts
>>> to
>>> >>>>>> follow scripture, and to provide moral guidance while respecting
>>> >>>>>> individual
>>> >>>>>> conscience. Seventh-day Adventists want to relate to the question
>>> of
>>> >>>>>> abortion in ways that reveal faith in God as the Creator and
>>> Sustainer
>>> >>>> of
>>> >>>>>> all life and in ways that reflect Christian responsibility and
>>> >>>>>> freedom.
>>> >>>>>> Though honest differences on the question of abortion exist among
>>> >>>>>> Seventh-day Adventists, the following represents an attempt to
>>> provide
>>> >>>>>> guidelines on a number of principles and issues. The guidelines
>>> >>>>>> are
>>> >>>> based
>>> >>>>>> on broad biblical principles that are presented for study at the
>>> end
>>> >>>>>> of
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> document.**
>>> >>>>>> 1) Prenatal human life is a magnificent gift of God. God's ideal
>>> for
>>> >>>>>> human
>>> >>>>>> beings affirms the sanctity of human life, in God's image, and
>>> >>>>>> requires
>>> >>>>>> respect for prenatal life. However, decisions about life must be
>>> made
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> >>>>>> the context of a fallen world. Abortion is never an action of
>>> little
>>> >>>>>> moral
>>> >>>>>> consequence. Thus prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly
>>> destroyed.
>>> >>>>>> Abortion should be performed only for the most serious reasons.
>>> >>>>>> 2) Abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness.
>>> >>>>>> The
>>> >>>> Church
>>> >>>>>> should offer gracious support to those who personally face the
>>> >>>>>> decision
>>> >>>>>> concerning an abortion. Attitudes of condemnation are
>>> inappropriate in
>>> >>>>>> those who have accepted the gospel. Christians are commissioned
>>> >>>>>> to
>>> >>>> become
>>> >>>>>> a
>>> >>>>>> loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as
>>> >>>>>> alternatives are considered.
>>> >>>>>> 3) In practical, tangible ways the Church as a supportive
>>> >>>>>> community
>>> >>>>>> should
>>> >>>>>> express its commitment to the value of human life. These ways
>>> should
>>> >>>>>> include:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> a. strengthening family relationships
>>> >>>>>> b. educating both genders concerning Christian principles of
>>> >>>>>> human
>>> >>>>>> sexuality
>>> >>>>>> c. emphasizing responsibility of both male and female for family
>>> >>>> planning
>>> >>>>>> d. calling both to be responsible for the consequences of
>>> >>>>>> behaviors
>>> >>>>>> that
>>> >>>>>> are inconsistent with Christian principles
>>> >>>>>> e. creating a safe climate for ongoing discussion of the moral
>>> >>>>>> questions
>>> >>>>>> associated with abortion
>>> >>>>>> f. offering support and assistance to women who choose to
>>> >>>>>> complete
>>> >>>> crisis
>>> >>>>>> pregnancies
>>> >>>>>> g. encouraging and assisting fathers to participate responsibly
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> the
>>> >>>>>> parenting of their children.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> The Church also should commit itself to assist in alleviating the
>>> >>>>>> unfortunate social, economic, and psychological factors that add
>>> >>>>>> to
>>> >>>>>> abortion and to care redemptively for those suffering the
>>> consequences
>>> >>>> of
>>> >>>>>> individual decisions on this issue.
>>> >>>>>> 4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals;
>>> however,
>>> >>>>>> it
>>> >>>>>> should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth
>>> control,
>>> >>>>>> gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church.
>>> >>>>>> Women,
>>> >>>>>> at
>>> >>>>>> times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present
>>> serious
>>> >>>>>> moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the
>>> pregnant
>>> >>>>>> woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital
>>> >>>>>> defects
>>> >>>>>> carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from
>>> rape or
>>> >>>>>> incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or
>>> not
>>> >>>>>> should
>>> >>>>>> be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She
>>> >>>>>> should
>>> >>>>>> be
>>> >>>>>> aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical
>>> >>>>>> principles,
>>> >>>>>> and
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best
>>> made
>>> >>>>>> within
>>> >>>>>> the context of healthy family relationships.
>>> >>>>>> 5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their
>>> accountability
>>> >>>>>> to
>>> >>>>>> God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty
>>> and
>>> >>>>>> their
>>> >>>>>> accountability to the faith community and the larger society and
>>> its
>>> >>>>>> laws.
>>> >>>>>> They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of
>>> >>>>>> God
>>> >>>> rather
>>> >>>>>> than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce
>>> >>>>>> women
>>> >>>> either
>>> >>>>>> to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected
>>> >>>>>> as
>>> >>>>>> infringements of personal freedom.
>>> >>>>>> 6) Church institutions should be provided with guidelines for
>>> >>>>>> developing
>>> >>>>>> their own institutional policies in harmony with this statement.
>>> >>>>>> Persons
>>> >>>>>> having a religious or ethical objection to abortion should not be
>>> >>>>>> required
>>> >>>>>> to participate in the performance of abortions.
>>> >>>>>> 7) Church members should be encouraged to participate in the
>>> ongoing
>>> >>>>>> consideration of their moral responsibilities with regard to
>>> abortion
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> >>>>>> light of the teaching of scripture.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> *Principles for a Christian View of Life*
>>> >>>>>> *Introduction*
>>> >>>>>> "Now this is eternal life; that they may know you, the only true
>>> God,
>>> >>>> and
>>> >>>>>> Jesus Christ whom you have sent" (John 17:3, *NIV*). In Christ is
>>> the
>>> >>>>>> promise of eternal life; but since human life is mortal, humans
>>> >>>>>> are
>>> >>>>>> confronted with difficult issues regarding life and death. The
>>> >>>>>> following
>>> >>>>>> principles refer to the whole person (body, soul, and spirit), an
>>> >>>>>> indivisible whole (Genesis 2:7; 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
>>> >>>>>> *
>>> >>>>>> Life: Our valuable gift from God*
>>> >>>>>> 1) God is the Source, Giver, and Sustainer of all life (Acts
>>> 17:25,28;
>>> >>>>>> Job
>>> >>>>>> 33:4; Genesis 1:30, 2:7; Psalm 36:9; John 1:3,4).
>>> >>>>>> 2) Human life has unique value because human beings, though
>>> >>>>>> fallen,
>>> >>>>>> are
>>> >>>>>> created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27; Romans 3:23; 1 John
>>> 2:2; 1
>>> >>>>>> John
>>> >>>>>> 3:2; John 1:29; 1 Peter 1:18,19).
>>> >>>>>> 3) God values human life not on the basis of human
>>> >>>>>> accomplishments
>>> or
>>> >>>>>> contributions but because we are God's creation and the object of
>>> His
>>> >>>>>> redeeming love (Romans 5:6,8; Ephesians 2:2-6; 1 Timothy 1:15;
>>> Titus
>>> >>>>>> 3:4,5;
>>> >>>>>> Matthew 5:43-48; Ephesians 2:4-9; John 1:3, 10:10).
>>> >>>>>> *
>>> >>>>>> Life: Our response to God's gift*
>>> >>>>>> 4) Valuable as it is, human life is not the only or ultimate
>>> concern.
>>> >>>>>> Self-sacrifice in devotion to God and His principles may take
>>> >>>>>> precedence
>>> >>>>>> over life itself (Revelation 12:11; 1 Corinthians 13).
>>> >>>>>> 5) God calls for the protection of human life and holds humanity
>>> >>>>>> accountable for its destruction (Exodus 20:13; Revelation 21:8;
>>> Exodus
>>> >>>>>> 23:7; Deuteronomy 24:16; Proverbs 6:16,17; Jeremiah 7:3-34; Micah
>>> 6:7;
>>> >>>>>> Genesis 9:5,6).
>>> >>>>>> 6) God is especially concerned for the protection of the weak,
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> defenseless, and the oppressed (Psalm 82:3,4; James 1:27; Micah
>>> 6:8;
>>> >>>> Acts
>>> >>>>>> 20:35; Proverbs 24:11,12; Luke 1:52-54).
>>> >>>>>> 7) Christian love (agape) is the costly dedication of our lives
>>> >>>>>> to
>>> >>>>>> enhancing the lives of others. Love also respects personal
>>> >>>>>> dignity
>>> and
>>> >>>>>> does
>>> >>>>>> not condone the oppression of one person to support the abusive
>>> >>>>>> behavior
>>> >>>>>> of
>>> >>>>>> another (Matthew 16:21; Philippians 2:1-11; 1 John 3:16; 1 John
>>> >>>>>> 4:8-11;
>>> >>>>>> Matthew 22:39; John 18:22,23; John 13:34).
>>> >>>>>> 8) The believing community is called to demonstrate Christian
>>> >>>>>> love
>>> in
>>> >>>>>> tangible, practical, and substantive ways. God calls us to
>>> >>>>>> restore
>>> >>>> gently
>>> >>>>>> the broken (Galatians 6:1,2; 1 John 3:17,18; Matthew 1:23;
>>> Philippians
>>> >>>>>> 2:1-11; John 8:2-11; Romans 8:1-14; Matthew 7:1,2, 12:20; Isaiah
>>> >>>>>> 40:42,
>>> >>>>>> 62:2-4).
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> *Life: Our right and responsibility to decide*
>>> >>>>>> 9) God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to
>>> >>>>>> abuse
>>> >>>>>> and tragic consequences. His unwillingness to coerce human
>>> obedience
>>> >>>>>> necessitated the sacrifice of His Son. He requires us to use His
>>> gifts
>>> >>>> in
>>> >>>>>> accordance with His will and ultimately will judge their misuse
>>> >>>>>> (Deuteronomy 30:19,20; Genesis 3; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 3:5,6,
>>> 6:1,2;
>>> >>>>>> Galatians 5:13).
>>> >>>>>> 10) God calls each of us individually to moral decision making
>>> >>>>>> and
>>> to
>>> >>>>>> search the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such
>>> >>>> choices
>>> >>>>>> (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).
>>> >>>>>> 11) Decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are
>>> best
>>> >>>>>> made
>>> >>>>>> within the context of healthy family relationships with the
>>> support of
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).
>>> >>>>>> 12) Human decisions should always be centered in seeking the will
>>> of
>>> >>>>>> God
>>> >>>>>> (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 6:6; Luke 22:42).
>>> >>>>>> *Abortion, as understood in these guidelines, is defined as any
>>> action
>>> >>>>>> aimed at the termination of a pregnancy already established. This
>>> is
>>> >>>>>> distinguished from contraception, which is intended to prevent a
>>> >>>>>> pregnancy.
>>> >>>>>> The focus of the document is on abortion.
>>> >>>>>> **The fundamental perspective of these guidelines is taken from a
>>> >>>>>> broad
>>> >>>>>> study of scripture as shown in the "Principles for a Christian
>>> View of
>>> >>>>>> Human Life" included at the end of this document.
>>> >>>>>> _______________
>>> >>>>>> *These guidelines were approved and voted by the General
>>> Conference of
>>> >>>>>> Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council
>>> >>>>>> session
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> >>>>>> Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.*
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------
>>> >>>>>> *From:* Maurice Oduor <mauricejoduor@gmail.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mauricejoduor@gmail.com> >
>>> >>>>>> *To:* wanabidii@googlegroups.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wanabidii@googlegroups.com>
>>>
>>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:04 AM
>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [wanabidii] Is Rape A Good Excuse For Abortion?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Banda,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I agree with you completely. The Morning-after Pill should be the
>>> >>>>>> first resort in a case of rape. If that is not possible, bear it
>>> and
>>> >>>>>> carry the pregnancy then give the baby up for adoption. You do
>>> >>>>>> not
>>> >>>>>> want to bring the kid up and be reminded of the rape forever.
>>> >>>>>> That
>>> is
>>> >>>>>> the kindest thing to do for that kid. People have been known to
>>> >>>>>> mistreat kids they bore from rape.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Courage,
>>> >>>>>> Oduor Maurice
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On 8/23/12, Charles Banda <chasbanda@gmail.com <
>>> http://us.mc1218.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chasbanda@gmail.com> >
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> Should abortion be permissible in cases of rape? That's jumping
>>> the
>>> >>>>>>> gun.
>>> >>>>>>> Before we discuss the propriety of abortion in the specific
>>> >>>>>>> instance
>>> >>>>>>> of
>>> >>>>>>> rape, let us first establish a moral baseline by discussing the
>>> >>>>>>> propriety
>>> >>>>>>> of abortion in general.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I want to be very clear: In my own opinion, abortion is a
>>> >>>>>> *TERRIBLE*thing.
>>> >>>>>>> Now, I would not rush to make abortion illegal, since that only
>>> >>>>>>> seems
>>> >>>>>>> to
>>> >>>>>>> make things worse, but the idea that unborn children can be
>>> >>>>>>> flippantly
>>> >>>>>>> murdered in cold blood is just simply NASTY. Nowadays, you can
>>> >>>>>>> not
>>> >>>>>>> get
>>> >>>>>> away
>>> >>>>>>> with murdering a useless cat; You can not get away with
>>> >>>>>>> murdering
>>> a
>>> >>>>>>> dog;
>>> >>>>>>> you can not get away with murdering an innocent lizard, and in
>>> most
>>> >>>>>>> jurisdictions, you can not even cut down a tree without running
>>> >>>>>>> afoul
>>> >>>>>>> of
>>> >>>>>>> the law.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> So why then should anyone get away with murdering a defenseless
>>> >>>>>>> unborn
>>> >>>>>>> child? On what grounds, exactly, might that level of cruelty be
>>> >>>>>>> excused?
>>> >>>>>> By
>>> >>>>>>> what moral reasoning might a dog rate higher than an unborn
>>> infant?
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Anyhow you look at it, abortion is a *TERRIBLY WICKED* thing to
>>> do,
>>> >>>>>> which
>>> >>>>>>> is why we should not be encouraging it as a society. While I
>>> >>>>>>> would
>>> >>>>>>> not
>>> >>>>>> rush
>>> >>>>>>> to criminalize abortion, I would work overtime to build a
>>> >>>>>>> society
>>> >>>> where
>>> >>>>>>> unwanted pregnancies, and the need for abortion, are utterly
>>> >>>> minimized.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> (a.) If you don't want a child, grab a condom.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> (b.) If you forget, or if you give in to indiscretion in a
>>> >>>>>>> moment
>>> of
>>> >>>>>>> heat
>>> >>>>>>> and passion, use a morning-after pill to side-track pregnancy
>>> while
>>> >>>>>>> it
>>> >>>>>>> is
>>> >>>>>>> still early.
>>> >>>>>>> (c.) Finally, in the unlikely event that everything fails, take
>>> some
>>> >>>>>>> *PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY* for your own recklessness and have
>>> >>>>>>> the
>>> >>>> baby.
>>> >>>>>> If
>>> >>>>>>> you don't want the child, you can always give him away for
>>> adoption,
>>> >>>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>> same way that Steve Jobs, or Babe Ruth, or Malcomn X, or Marilyn
>>> >>>>>>> Monroe,
>>> >>>>>> or
>>> >>>>>>> Mark Twain, were given out for adoption.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Nobody should be cutting up the limbs of a 3-month old fetus.
>>> >>>>>>> Its
>>> >>>> nasty
>>> >>>>>> and
>>> >>>>>>> cruel and *REALLY BARBARIC*, and it is really selfish to presume
>>> >>>>>>> that
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>>>>> woman's "choice" to save face after a reckless sexual choices
>>> >>>>>>> supersedes
>>> >>>>>>> the baby's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
>>> >>>>>>> If you are pro the life of a cat or a lizard, the least you can
>>> >>>>>>> do
>>> >>>>>>> is
>>> >>>>>>> be
>>> >>>>>>> pro the the life of an incubating human being.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Moving on ...
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Should abortion be permissible in cases of rape then? I frankly
>>> have
>>> >>>> no
>>> >>>>>>> clear answer. Rape is a horrible crime, and carrying an
>>> >>>>>>> offspring
>>> >>>>>>> from
>>> >>>>>> rape
>>> >>>>>>> must be extremely nauseating. I can not even begin to imagine
>>> >>>>>>> how
>>> >>>>>> traumatic
>>> >>>>>>> that would be.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Yet, I can not help but ask: as horrible as rape is, is
>>> >>>>>>> slaughtering
>>> >>>>>>> an
>>> >>>>>>> innocent child any less horrible? I really don't know that it
>>> >>>>>>> is.
>>> In
>>> >>>> my
>>> >>>>>>> book, people are people are people are people, whether they are
>>> tall
>>> >>>> or
>>> >>>>>>> short, rich or born, black or white, born or unborn. An innocent
>>> >>>>>>> child
>>> >>>>>>> conceived from even rape is in my opinion also entitled to life,
>>> to
>>> >>>>>>> liberty, to kindness, to dignity, and to the pursuit of
>>> >>>>>>> happiness.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> So should it be acceptable to abort babies conceived from rape?
>>> >>>>>>> A
>>> >>>>>>> YES
>>> >>>>>>> answer is not completely satisfactory to moral sentiment.
>>> >>>>>>> So if someone is raped, and they don't want a baby, I think they
>>> >>>>>>> should
>>> >>>>>> as
>>> >>>>>>> a matter of urgency to take a Morning-after pill the very next
>>> day.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, those are my thoughts. Yours are welcome.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> >>>>>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> >>>>>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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>>> Utapata Email ya
>>> >>>>>>> kudhibitisha
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>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> >>>>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
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>>> >>>>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
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>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> >>>>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> >>>>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
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>>> >>>>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> >>>>>> legal
>>> >>>>>> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and
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>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> >>>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> >>>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
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>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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>>> >>>>> ukishatuma
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> >>>> legal
>>> >>>>> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and
>>> >>>>> facts
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>>> >>>>> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> >>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> >>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
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>>> >>>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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>>> >>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> >>>> to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> >>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> >>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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>>> >>>
>>> >>> Disclaimer:
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>>> >>> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts
>>> must be
>>> >>> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you
>>> agree to
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>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> >> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> >> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>> >>
>>> >> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
>>> >> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <
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>>> Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
>>> >>
>>> >> Disclaimer:
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>>> facts
>>> must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that
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>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
>>> Guidelines.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> > Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> > Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>> >
>>> > Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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>>> >
>>> > Disclaimer:
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> > Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> > Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>> >
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>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
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>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
>>>
>>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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>>> Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha ukishatuma
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>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
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>>>
>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com <http://www.mwanabidii.com>
>>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.kazibongo.blogspot.com>
>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com <
>>> http://www.patahabari.blogspot.com>
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>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
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>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
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>>>
>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> facts
>>> must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that
>>> you
>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
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>>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
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>>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
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>>> ukishatuma
>>>
>>> Disclaimer:
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>>> legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and
>>> facts
>>> must be presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that
>>> you
>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
>>> Guidelines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
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>>> facts
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>>> agree to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and
>>> Guidelines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
>> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
>> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
>>
>> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
>> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha
>> ukishatuma
>>
>> Disclaimer:
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>> legal
>> consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements and facts must
>> be
>> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree
>> to this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Karibu Jukwaa la www.mwanabidii.com
> Pata nafasi mpya za Kazi www.kazibongo.blogspot.com
> Blogu ya Habari na Picha www.patahabari.blogspot.com
>
> Kujiondoa Tuma Email kwenda
> wanabidii+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Utapata Email ya kudhibitisha
> ukishatuma
>
> Disclaimer:
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> presented responsibly. Your continued membership signifies that you agree to
> this disclaimer and pledge to abide by our Rules and Guidelines.
>
>
>

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